[Year 12 IT Apps] time to move on?
Mark Kelly
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Wed May 7 22:50:09 EST 2008
Off-topic (OT) messages can sometimes survive here until they become
painful to more than some of our subscribers. It's a fine line.
While OT, so far, the topic does not seem to be dominating on-topic
discussion or annoying subscribers. If it persists much longer, it could
well start being OT and irrelevant to our organisational goals.
You'll know when Kevork or I start to growl.
Love and kisses
Mark
Here's a gift from the Apostrophe Fairy: '''
Please use them where appropriate in messages above!
Kent Beveridge wrote:
> Its an interesting thread we are discussing and yes, many of us are/are not recognized for our previous experiences/expertise/training etc and, in summary from what I can read, it seems that on one hand we are being given parity with NSW, but, on the other (time), we are seemingly not.
>
> Rather than just all get upset, lets just agree that its good to finally get a bit more, how much?, well, lets just wait and see when it arrives via our payrolls.
>
> sorry guys, but perhaps we better get back to using this list for our subjects...sound fair?
>
> Kent.(hows that Mark?)
>
> Kent Beveridge,
> I.T. co-ordinator
> St. Brigids Catholic Sec. College
> Horsham
> email.. kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au
>
> |<3|\|7 b3\/3r1D93 ? ;-)
>
> Wishes and Eggs, one you make and one you break! A bit like promises.....
> "This email and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this email if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and delete the email and all copies. The School does not guarantee that this email is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and my only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this email are not necessarily those of the School."
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Andrew Grimshaw
> Sent: Wed 5/7/2008 3:44 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] o/t: Gov/AEU Agreement
>
>
> janet
>
> i do not begrudge the pay rise that expert teachers are getting, nor am i accusing anyone of not working hard enough
>
> i am objecting to the fact that most teachers have won nothing from the campaign - we have been given the 3.25% that the government offered on the first place whilst giving up some conditions
>
> all teachers should be rewarded, not just those at the top
>
> also, let us not kid ourselves that 3.25% is a pay rise - it is about 1% less than inflation which means that the value of our career structure will continue to erode
>
> andrew grimshaw
> colac secondary college
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bane, Janet A <mailto:bane.janet.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List <mailto:itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:28 PM
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] o/t: Gov/AEU Agreement
>
>
>
> Guys, Guys! we are getting a pay RISE, not pay cut. I can't believe you aren't the teeniest tiniest bit happy! Yes, I am one of those "Expert" teachers who have "stuck around doing the bare minimum for long enough to reach the top of the classroom teacher scale", but hey, I do an extra job (computer across the curriculum) and I work long hours, (last night I left school at 93.0 pm - OK, it was Open night), am available to students AND other teachers all lunchtimes, recesses, before and after school, just like you. Trouble is, that our school has only about 6 leading teachers in a staff of over 80, as they are seen as "too expensive". So, I think, before you criticise Expert teachers, you should acknowledge that experienced teachers are the backbone (the "grunt") of most schools, without the reward of being a leading teacher. I think most of us are quite happy with the pay rise, although as others have said, the devil will be in detail.
>
> just my two cents worth,
>
>
> Janet Bane
> Patterson River SC
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Harper, Glenda J
> Sent: Wed 07-May-08 8:34 AM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] o/t: Gov/AEU Agreement
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Yes, Andrew. The agreement is a disgrace. I'm not too sure where Leading Teachers fit if teachers "at the top" have received the largest pay rise. Leading Teachers, who have maximum responsibility and (usually) full classroom teaching loads, have proved that they are, in fact "at the top", but are receiving only a fraction of the pay rise awarded to "Expert" teachers, some of whom have simply stuck around doing the bare minimum for long enough to reach the top of the classroom teacher scale. Leading Teachers do not cease to be highly skilled classroom teachers just because they accept additional responsibility, work longer hours, be available to students AND other teachers all lunchtimes, recesses, before and after school . . . To quote one of my esteemed colleagues: "We have been royally screwed!"
>
>
>
> Glenda Harper
> Sub-School Leader - Senior Years
> Carwatha College P-12
> harper.glenda.j at edumail.vic.gov.au <mailto:harper.glenda.j at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Ph: 9795 5848
> Fax: 9790 1712
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Andrew Grimshaw
> Sent: Tue 6/05/2008 11:17 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] o/t: Gov/AEU Agreement
>
>
>
> hey all
>
> >From my reading of it I think the deal is a disgrace. It benefits those at
> the top of the expert range and new gradautes but does nothing for everyone
> in between, who have seen the value of their wages be eroded over the last
> 18 months
>
> Again the devil will be in the detail, but in conversation with the AEU on
> the telephone today it was made clear to me that teachers will not be moving
> up levels to gain parity with NSW
>
> True parity with NSW would apply to all teachers, not just new ones and
> those at the top
>
> That is, if you are a 5th year teacher in Vic, your wage should be
> equivalent to a 5th year teacher in NSW.
>
> Under my understanding of the deal struck a 5th year teacher in in Vic will
> be paid about the same as a 3rd year in NSW
>
> that is for everyone in the system and not at the top level we have gained
> absolutely nothing and in fact have lost ground - both in pay and conditions
>
> I hope I am mistaken - I will be waiting with bated breath to read the
> agreement
>
> Andrew Grimshaw
> Colac Secondary College
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <stephen at melbpc.org.au>
> To: <english at edulists.com.au>
> Cc: <offtopic at edulists.com.au>; <itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 7:26 PM
> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] o/t: Gov/AEU Agreement
>
>
> > Victorian teachers to be nation's best-paid
> >
> > Farrah Tomazin May 5, 2008 - 11:33AM
> > <http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/05/05/1209839508834.html>
> >
> > The education union has hailed a deal that will make Victorian teachers
> > the highest-paid in the country as the best deal for its members in more
> > than 25 years.
> >
> > The agreement between the State Government and the Australian Education
> > Union (AEU) resolves a 14-month industrial row, which included three
> > statewide teachers' strikes and weeks of rolling half-day stoppages.
> >
> > The unions had threatened to walk off the job from May 13 to 15,
> > disrupting during the first national literacy and numeracy tests. The
> > resolution of the industrial dispute means those tests are now likely to
> > go ahead without disruption.
> >
> > AEU Victorian branch president Mary Bluett said it was the best enterprise
> > bargaining deal for teachers that she had seen in 25 years with the union.
> >
> > 11% rise for some
> >
> > However, there appears to be some contention over the increases announced
> > by Premier John Brumby and Education Minister Bronwyn Pike this morning.
> >
> > The Government says the deal will equate to a 4.9% pay rise in the first
> > year and 2.7% in the second and third years of the agreement.
> >
> > But the union believes some of biggest beneficiaries of the deal will get
> > between 8% and 11%.
> >
> > "It's a complex arrangement, but the least any teacher is going to get out
> > of this is somewhere between five and six per cent per annum,'' Ms Bluett
> > said.
> >
> > "This is the best outcome in terms of salary and career structure in my
> > history as a union official of 25 years standing,'' Ms Bluett said.
> >
> > Pupil-free days to stay
> >
> > A key sticking point in negotiations was the issue of pupil-free days,
> > which the Government had originally wanted to abolish.
> >
> > Under the new deal, three pupil free training days will be brought to the
> > start of the term and become professional training days and only one will
> > be held mid-term, in a bid to minimise disruption to parents.
> >
> > It also includes an exits strategy to remove disengage teachers from
> > classroom and find them new jobs.
> >
> > Secondary students will get an extra six days of tuition each year under
> > the deal, Mr Brumby said, describing it as a win for students and
> > teachers.
> >
> > "A graduate teacher in Victoria currently earns $46,127 and under this
> > agreement will become the highest-paid graduate teacher in the country
> > earning $51,184, while an experienced classroom teacher will receive a
> > $10,000 pay rise to $75,500."
> >
> > Mr Brumby said the pay deal was consistent with the Government's wages
> > policy of a 3.25% rise every year, plus increases off-set by service
> > improvement.
> >
> > State-by-state teacher salaries:
> >
> > Maximum for a classroom teacher
> >
> > Victoria - 2007: $65,414, 2008: $75,500
> >
> > NSW - 2007: $72,454, 2008: $75,352
> >
> > Queensland - 2007: $69,225, 2008: $71,994
> >
> > South Australia - 2007: $68,422, 2008: $68,422
> >
> > West Australia - 2007: $67,446, 2008: $71,206
> >
> > ACT - 2007: $71,767, 2008: $74,279
> >
> > Northern Territory: 2007: $70,047, 2008: $72,849
> >
> >
> > Graduate Entry
> >
> > Victoria - 2007: $46,127, 2008: $51,184
> >
> > NSW - 2007: $49,050, 2008: $50,522
> >
> > Queensland - 2007: $46,950, 2008: $48,829
> >
> > South Australia - 2007: $49,605, 2008: $49,605
> >
> > West Australia - 2007: $44,618, 2008: $45,733
> >
> > ACT: 2007: $50,781, 2008: $50,781
> >
> > Northern Territory: $49,944, 2008: $49,944
> >
> > Source: Victorian Government
> > --
> >
> > Cheers people
> > Stephen Loosley
> > Victoria, Australia
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
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--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
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