[Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue

Mon Dec 8 18:53:19 EST 2008

Ros,

Perhaps you did start a bonfire!

If so then good J

The issue needs to be discussed

It has been really good to hear all the different opinions and 

as someone said 

here we have all these people working together  as virtual teams to sort out the problem.

So hopefully we can now communicate - and I mean really communicate - so that both sides - the techs and the teachers - can understand where they are both coming from.

Bad English! Sorry!

Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
Ashwood and Traralgon
robert at yinnar.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ros Meadows 
  To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
  Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue

  I am sorry if I started a bonfire!
  >From reading everyone's posts, there are obviously very varying opinions.

  Ultimately you only need to look at what Roland has achieved at Westall, in a school which is not rich (in monetary terms), and must deal with the same security issues as the rest of us. Yet given the opportunity to adopt a new idea, application or online website, Roland does not question with "Will this work? "What is the educational value of this?" "Will this compromise the security of my system?" or "will this be adopted by students and/or staff?"

  No, he thinks "that would be cool" and therefore dives headfirst into the latest and greatest "stuff" on offer, giving his students and staff choices in what operating system, software, search engine and online apps they use.

  I admire and envy you so much Roland - you create more educational opportunities for your students by giving them more options, than other schools who have so many more (financial) resources.

  Someone said to me at the conference 'Microsoft, the drug dealers of the software kingdom - "your first hit is on us kiddies"' - and so our kids pirate MS software so they can have it at home, because they think they need it, but can't afford it - not good! Show them there are legal and free alternatives such as Google docs or Open Office and they won't be guilty of software piracy!!

  Cheers
  Ros

  Timmer-Arends wrote: 
    >However in schools this was not always the case - individual teachers and other staff seemed to believe that their individual views represented that of the entire school, and IT staff were pulled in all directions, often contradictory, After unblocking one website for one staff member, they'd get another complaining that their kids could now waste time on that same website. After installing some piece of software based on one request, theyd have someone else asking him why staff were being confused with multiple offerings. You can probably see his dilemma.

    >His view that he was paid by the school to meet the school's needs - but the school's needs were not always clearly defined

    >He commented that in some schools the IT support people ended up taking the lead because there seemed to be nobody else willing to manage a process that reached a school-level view on priority and strategy. He thought this was a dangerous situation. 

    Ken, has your IT technical manager been speaking to our IT technical manager? One of the biggest frustrations our guy has is that he feels he is there to serve the needs of the school community, but that the said community doesn't seem to have a clue where it wants to go with all this IT staff. And that is a curriculum issue, not an IT issue.

    It sounds to me like Royce is taking a tough but perfectly understandable line on all this. Not wishing to put words into his mouth, but something like "show me the evidence that this will improve student learning, get the school to agree with you, and then come see me with your proposal"

    Regards
    Robert T-A
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: ken price 
      To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
      Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:05 AM
      Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue

      I agree, the analysis of how IT meets organisational needs is valid as it is part of the course.

      I'll tell a short tale of  a very skilled IT technical manager at a school where I taught. He had spent several years working for large national organisations as IT manager. He was (and still is) very keen to make IT work for the school in the best possible way. He is a very valuable school IT manager.

      After a few months working at the school he made an interesting observation about schools vs his past employer which might be relevant here.

      He noticed that in the large organisations, there was strong governance over ICT decisions and investment. Decisions were made/endorsed by senior management based on needs and suggestions put forward by all staff (including IT support). It was thus very clear what the organisation wanted in terms of ICT. However in schools this was not always the case - individual teachers and other staff seemed to believe that their individual views represented that of the entire school, and IT staff were pulled in all directions, often contradictory, After unblocking one website for one staff member, they'd get another complaining that their kids could now waste time on that same website. After installing some piece of software based on one request, theyd have someone else asking him why staff were being confused with multiple offerings. You can probably see his dilemma.

      His view that he was paid by the school to meet the school's needs - but the school's needs were not always clearly defined. He felt that if staff in most large organisations directly approached their IT support unit demanding their own way, they'd be referred very quickly to the IT decision-making committee. If they did it more than once, things would get serious for them. Similarly, he saw that if his IT support staff ignored the priorities set by the organisation and did whatever they thought was a good idea or interesting, their job would be in jeopardy.

      He commented that in some schools the IT support people ended up taking the lead because there seemed to be nobody else willing to manage a process that reached a school-level view on priority and strategy. He thought this was a dangerous situation. It relates directly to Anne's quote from the Unit3 syllabus.

      So perhaps there is another issue here - the nature of schools and how they reach decisions on how they want to use IT,innovate, etc, and how these decisions are informed by educational and technical issues?

      The IT manager was unsure if schools are inherently different to other large organisations, or if there is something else here. I haven't spoken to him for some time, so I'll get in touch and see what his views are now,

      Perhaps we can get some examples of how schools manage this school-level decision making and how it translates into the work that "techies" do?  Perhaps they would be useful as case studies for students?

      Ken Price 
      DoE Tasmania
      President, TASITE www.tasite.edu.au

      On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:10 AM, <murch at tpg.com.au> wrote:

        This discussion may have gone on long enough but I would like to argue that it is not inappropriate to
        this list or OT as it embraces the very nature of the ITA course. From the summary of the VCAA course
        design.
        "Unit 3 focuses on how individuals or organisations use ICT to solve information problems. This unit
        focuses on how ICT is used by organisations to solve ongoing information problems and in the
        strategies to protect the integrity of data and security of information."
        I think that this is a realistic problem that teachers and technicians on the list are looking at and are
        discussing. It is one that will be used for my students next year as they will see the relevance of such a
        problem as it pertains to their education. It has been interesting to hear the opinions of the various
        people involved in organisations - technicians, educationalists etc And best of all, here is a virtual team
        in action trying to solve the problem.
        So thank you to everyone, and I in no way meant to be an egotistical contributor, simply someone
        seeking a solution.

        Anne Mirtschin
        Hawkesdale P12 College
        _______________________________________________

        http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
        IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
        http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
        http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc

      -- 

      _______________________________________________ 
      http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
      IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by 
      http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and 
      http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
    _______________________________________________ 
    http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
    IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by 
    http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and 
    http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc

  -- 
  Roslyn Meadows 
  TONS
  ros.meadows at gmail.com 
  Bentleigh Secondary College 
  Vivien Street, East Bentleigh, 3165 
  Phone 9579 1044
  Mobile 0412 614 062 
  _______________________________________________ 
  http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
  IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by 
  http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and 
  http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20081208/a8f38b34/attachment-0001.html