[Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue
Robert
robert at yinnar.com
Sun Dec 7 17:31:01 EST 2008
Thanks Robert,
"The problem of course being just what education is it that the kids need?"
So let us start there
what education is it that the kids need? This is a curriculum problem. It is not an ITC problem, the ITC has to support the needs of the kids.
So do we keep going round in circles or do we put effort into working out the first problem - "Just what education is it that the kids need?"
And then we move on to the ways in which ICT within schools can support those needs.
Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
Ashwood and Traralgon
robert at yinnar.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Timmer-Arends
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue
The problem of course being just what education is it that the kids need?
Regards
Robert T-A
Brighton SC
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue
"motherhood statements"?
Sorry Royce, but just what are schools there for if not to provide the education that the kids need? And that then applies to all resources within the school.
Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
Ashwood and Traralgon
robert at yinnar.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Royce Williams" <Royce.Williams at billanook.vic.edu.au>
To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List" <itapps at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue
> Ok wearing my eLearning hat I have now been given info that says that there are educational reasons to investigate google docs
> Thannks Ros
> I will still ignore motherhood statements about only being there for students and actually look at them vs the facilities like the LMS we already have
> I will then change my hats and tell my self to have my techs look into any security or privacy issues.
> In the case of firefox my previous decision still stands .Even tho I hate explored there are sufficient comparability issues with some web pages to not make it the standard.
> Also there are suffient issues with parent expectations re microsoft being the only standard I am loathe to change from office.
>
> Royce Williams
> Sent from my AppleBerry
>
> On 07/12/2008, at 12:25 PM, "Paul Drew" <drew.paul.j at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:drew.paul.j at edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:
>
> Hi Ros,
>
> I’m sorry to hear that you are having a difficult time. I cannot imagine working in that sort of environment. I think it comes down to a few basics. Having a supportive Principal and AP is essential to getting anything done. You also need a technician who is there to help you. We are extremely fortunate to have both. We have a simply brilliant technician who has changed the way our intranet operates. Whenever we have an issue he comes up with ideas, not reasons why it can’t be done. He has a strong programming background so he can quickly create programs to counter the issues students throw at us. He is always one step ahead. He has a desire to learn. He is also very big on open source - so most of what we do costs nothing.
>
> The other really big plus is to lease all of your PC’s (thanks Roland for that advice). Now all of our tech’s time is spend improving our network. We have 100% of computers working. Virtually no time is spent messing with hardware.
>
> His latest toy is this one. It’s the open source answer to “netsupportschool” and allows teachers to monitor all students computers from their computer. It’s fantastic and costs nothing.
> http://italc.sourceforge.net/home.php
>
> If the technicians are not finding ways to support teachers then “what are they doing?” It is not for technicians to question “why” or to have teachers justify the educational merit of something. A good technician is one who just gets on with it, finds a way – and enjoys the challenge!
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Drew
> ICT Co-Ordinator
> Ashwood College
> ph: 9807-1333 Fax: 9888-1441
> email: <mailto:drew.paul.j at edumail.vic.gov.au> drew.paul.j at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:drew.paul.j at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> web: http://www.ashwood.vic.edu.au/
>
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Ros Meadows
> Sent: Saturday, 6 December 2008 18:55
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue
>
> Thanks Robert,
>
> For years I jumped up and down, banged my head against a brick wall, screamed insults, ranted and raved to anyone who would listen, in private (and to my very understanding hubby) I cried because I knew there was so much more that could be achieved for the students, if only the powers that be would see my point of view. I used the line "the tail is wagging the dog" to my principal early in 2007 when we had a moodle site running but the AV tech controlled it and would not let anyone create their own courses, and if I wanted to put a file on my course I would have to take the file to him on a USB so he could upload it, and also our moodle would only work within the school, not from home. The principal did not see an issue with this and refused to change the status quo, so moodle died in my school. But I could do nothing to make the principal and techs understand that the curriculum and the needs of the students should come first, not budgets and issues of "locking the system!
> down". I had no privileges on the network, the website was cr at p (and still is until I get a new one uploaded), the intranet was cr at p. I was sick of PT nights where parents would come to me and complain about the website and the "extranet/intranet" I fought against "the system", against educache, against the rip off fees students were charged for internet access, I investigated alternative ISPs, but who was I?? a mere woman, to undermine the decision making power of the principal and tech who had the power. My only agenda was to improve the educational outcomes of our students, yet that seemed to be the lowest priority on everyone else's list. So I privately paid for a web site and server so I could deliver an online curriculum to my students, but the need for them to have internet credit to access the site eventually killed this idea too. My enthusiasm for "we could do this, we can set this up" etc was always met with answers of "it can't be done, they would hack into the!
> system, it would cost more money" etc.... Eventually in April of thi
> s
> year I broke down completely. Yes, I went totally ga ga. I lost it completely and have had the year from hell.
>
> What has kept me going over the last 7 months was:
>
> 1. the fact that I am totally passionate about not only ICT, but it's potential to increase the learning outcomes of all students, in all subjects
> 2. the fact that I was on the VITTA Committee of Management (if any of you read this thank you guys for your support), and the opportunity it has given me to meet such wonderful people who share my passion for ICT education
> 3. People like Paula, Roland and Maggie who have given me confidence in my ability as an ICT educator. Thank You
> So when you feel like it is a them (ie techs) vs "me/us" thing - don't give up, fight back with Robert's words "The curriculum, the education and needs of the students are paramount"
>
> Don't let the tail wag the dog!!!!
>
> Ros M
> Bentleigh SC
>
> Robert wrote:
> Thanks Ros.
>
> The curriculum, the education and needs of the students are paramount.
>
> There may well be some things we "cannot do" on a school network. But the whole technical "tail" needs to put its best efforts into supporting the curriculum and make sure that the dog wags the tail.
>
> Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
> Ashwood and Traralgon
> <mailto:robert at yinnar.com>robert at yinnar.com<mailto:robert at yinnar.com>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ros Meadows<mailto:ros.meadows at gmail.com>
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<mailto:itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 9:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue
>
> Once again a case of the tail (ie the techs) wagging the dog (ie the curriculum)!!
>
> There is NO sound reason why you can't have firefox and google images, sometimes I wonder if it is just plain laziness, lack of ability or just a hunger for power on the part of techs.
>
> Cheers
> Ros
> BentleighSC
>
> <mailto:murch at tpg.com.au>murch at tpg.com.au<mailto:murch at tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> We have some issues with google docs as well. Google images are blocked at our school so this presents problems with the appearance of google
>
> docs. I also want firefox on our computer network but was told we cant have it. We are supposed to be a leading 21st century school!!! I love using
>
> google docs and use them extensively both with staff and schools in other countries etc. Means it is difficult to use them with my students. It is most
>
> annoying.
>
> Anne Mirtschin
>
> Hawkesdale P12 College
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> <http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
>
> <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>
> <http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Roslyn Meadows
> TONS
> ros.meadows at gmail.com<mailto:ros.meadows at gmail.com>
> Bentleigh Secondary College
> Vivien Street, East Bentleigh, 3165
> Phone 9579 1044
> Mobile 0412 614 062
> _______________________________________________
> <http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html%20>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> <http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
> _______________________________________________
> <http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html%20>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> <http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> --
> Roslyn Meadows
> TONS
> ros.meadows at gmail.com<mailto:ros.meadows at gmail.com>
> Bentleigh Secondary College
> Vivien Street, East Bentleigh, 3165
> Phone 9579 1044
> Mobile 0412 614 062
> _______________________________________________
> <http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html%20>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> <http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________
> <http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> <http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20081207/e8d5186c/attachment-0001.html
More information about the itapps
mailing list