[Year 12 IT Apps] IT and alternatives..
Tony Forster
forster at ozonline.com.au
Mon Oct 8 10:49:46 EST 2007
Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Answers...Bill Kerr discusses these issues at http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/10/philosophical-principles.html
What I like is where he says "a computer could be an immersive, dynamic medium for children to explore powerful ideas that are not accessible readily to children in other ways"
MSN and games could be used to explore "powerful ideas". Some of the existing use probably does, with appropriate guidance from teachers there is potential to explore a lot of powerful ideas: writing of diaries and reflection on learning in blogs and other social spaces, vectors and probability in games etc.
Gant is a useful thing to know but it doesnt strike me a "powerful idea", when you consider the rate of change of human knowledge and the 20 billion web pages that Google can access on 1/2 second, Gant strikes me as more ephemeral knowledge that may be irrelevant by the time kids reach the workplace
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell, Steven S
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT and alternatives..
I feel it has not changed at all over the years. The students and parents of the kids, seem to think because they sit in front of a computer on MSN and games and Email that they do know all they need to know about IT, but when you speak to them regarding Networks, IT in business, Gant and PERTs ect. and there importance, they seem to answer, WHAT?????I just took a student to the photocopying room to copy some practice Sacs for me and she commented on the hand written notes a teacher was photocopying. AND WHO SAYS WE DON'T NEED MORE IT IN THE CLASSROOM.
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From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Anne-Marie Chase
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 3:07 PM
To: 'Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT and alternatives..
Hi
We hear all the time in the media that kids know everything about technology, and people tend to believe this, in particular parents. So why would students need to study IT at school? It's five years now since I was an IT teacher in the classroom and kids certainly didn't know everything then (a few did J), has it changed?
For the year 7-10 IT we need to look at the technologies kids use and how they use them and think about where we as teachers can take this. We must recognize their informal learning and their existing skills and build on this. We must consider what skills children don't 'pick up' themselves through their own use and communication networks and look to fill these gaps. A big thing in the media at present is the risk children are at from predators while on line. For both parents and students there is a need for education in how to protect yourself while on line. These skills go beyond basic operational skills and require students to be critical users of technology and evaluate their use. Surely this is a role IT teachers should play?
I haven't taught the year 12 IT Apps but did teach IP&M, the processes, development cycles, evaluations etc did way more than develop technical know-how, it helped students to understand appropriate ICT for specific needs and contexts and develop discriminating use and understanding of the value of ICT. Do students and parents understand this is the value in studying IT?
I guess there should come a time where ICT is so well integrated into the curriculum that ICT as a subject will change. For this to be achieved other subject teachers will continue to need so much support that IT teachers will be far from redundant. I recently listened to a presentation by an Atelierista in a Reggio kindy. A long way from ICT in secondary schools I know. Yet a lot to be learnt in terms of team teaching, contexts, learning styles, projects and integrated curriculums. She talked about her role supporting all the children and teachers in the primary school, she had to know what all the teachers where doing and support them with materials, tools, techniques and skills that would enable them to achieve their goals. All the materials needed to be accessed, tested and evaluated. The tools, techniques and skills practiced and taught. This is way more than a classroom teacher could achieve by themselves, expertise was needed to support the classroom teacher. This was a role I always tried to offer in schools with the support and provision of IT expertise. For much of the delivery of ICT this is the way that should it be done, integrated, but with the support and guidance of an ICT specialist.
I wouldn't start retraining yet...
I've put an e-mail on this list before so I know many of you are aware of the research I am currently undertaking as part of a doctoral study. However, I still need more schools to get involved. Please send me an e-mail if you are interested chasea01 at student.uwa.edu.au The study is gathering data on student's experiences with a whole range of technologies in and out-of-school, students skill level with technology is examined. Associations with levels of engagement, students background and school factors will be investigated. We need to gain an understanding of what students are doing so we know how best we can support and teach them....
Regards
Anne-Marie
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From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Kent Beveridge
Sent: 24 September 2007 10:58
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT and alternatives..
Here is another reason that I, as an IT teacher primarily, am actively expanding my 'official qualification' base. Having taught both Maths and IT, but not being accredited to take VCE maths, this year for me, has been one of gaining, or trying to at least, post grad quals via online study for Maths. The primary reason is now coming to bear judging by the current thread! It seems that our IT stream is becoming a dying subject. Personally, I think its because of the over complexity of its content, and, an over zealous attempt to 'update' the subject when it has in fact, turned it from a fun subject to more of a dying dinosaur soon for extinction.
Since I still intend to stay in teaching to see my job days out (about 10-15 more years), I guess retraining is the best option. Beats the unemployment line!
With a bit of luck, by christmas, I will be able to offer VCE maths via a national accreditation, unlike my IT, which seems only recognized in Victoria. Those damn politicians and their VIT rego, only being valid for Victoria. This is the ideal situation where a national accreditation makes more sense. I for one, am prepared to travel interstate to teach as I have no attachments, sad but true!
I am also hoping that my TA04 course(again, nationally accredited) will be finished by year end too. This opens up other options also. (Hi Allan!).
Heres the strange bit, a girlfriend a few short years back suggested I should finish my maths qual back then, talk about foresight. Also let an opportunity to do an MIT at Melbourne uni pass by. In hindsight, maybe the MIT might not have been really any use anyway!
Maybe I'll just be a brickies labour, reckon I'm too old to start an apprenticeship now! Or even start a lawn mowing business but unfortunately we need rain for that one!
I spose with private tutoring at least its with people who choose to be there.
My prediction..by 2010, IT is gone! I too am trying the multimedia, programming option but the kids just dont have the attention span or desire to take it further. The parents I am getting the impression too, dont see much value in IT at senior levels. I guess they use it as a time filler pre-VCE years, lucky us(not).
Here's the funny part..who do they alway ask for computing help? Us ITers, yet they are killing us off by their subject(lack of) selection. Ironically, my school is building 3 new labs due to open next year. Great for junior and middle school, but the VCE IT (SD?) may not get much benefit. Maybe i should just shift my focus, like others, to junior and middle levels as the seniors dont give a rats!.
KB.
Kent Beveridge,
I.T. co-ordinator
St. Brigids Catholic Sec. College
Horsham
email.. kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au
|<3|\|7 b3\/3r1D93 ? ;-)
Wishes and Eggs, one you make and one you break! A bit like promises.....
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From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Roy Smalley
Sent: Mon 9/24/2007 10:23 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Answers...
Hi Geoff,
I think you articulated nearly all of my concerns with this new course.
One addition I would make is -
The increased complexity of the Outcomes (SACs).
For the first time this year both my ITA classes at Chisholm had seven International students and the remaining students were all 'adults returning to study'. Most of these students had a great deal of trouble handling SACs which contained multiple tasks/software. They tended to concentrate on the one task or software type. In the past students recieved low marks because the weak students concentrated more on the 'computer' work and less on the written work. These students are now failing because in addition they will only concentrate on one of the tasks.
It is my understanding that the tasks within one outcome must be related to the same problem and done at the same time. We need to have they flexiblity of breaking the outcomes into their individual tasks. I appreciate that the VCAA is trying to give students an appreciation of what it is like to work in the IT industry, etc. But, I think we are asking to much of our students (especially the less academic and disadvantaged). Most TAFE and University courses wouldn't try integrating theory and practice in projects until their final year! We need a course that caters for a wide range of abilities and IT backgrounds - flexible assessment is part of the solution!
The other problem with such large assessment tasks is the SAC resits. When a student fails a 6-8 hour assessment task how do you provide them with the opportunity to show a satisfactory understaning of the outcome? It's even worse for international students - the institute insists that they should have three attempts to pass each outcome with appropriate tutoring in between!!
The VCAA really needs to rethink their policy on prerequisites. If students are assumed to have skills and knowledge from earlier years then this should be stated as a prerequisite or 'strongly recommended' within the study design.
Roy Smalley
Access Department
Chisholm Institute of TAFE
PO Box 684
Dandenong VIC 3175
Work: 9238 8496
>>> "Geoff Moss" <geoffmoss37 at optusnet.com.au> Friday, 21 September 2007 20:27:36 >>>
Hi Maree
This has been a real problem I have faced at RMIT this year. Most of our
students had not done IT lower in the education system (a large majority of
our Year 12 students are not from RMIT Year 11 and many are mature
students).
As a result of the new study design these students have been severely
disadvantaged, having to learn each of the three applications before being
able to do each SAC.
While the intent of the course designers has no doubt been honourable and
directed at improving the study, little thought has been done for students
who fall into our situation.
We cannot prevent students selecting the study as they quite correctly state
that the study has no prerequisites (SD p.8). But did they anticipate
students would undertake the study without skills and knowledge in a
database software aplication, webdesign software and in Excel.? I strongly
suggest they did not.
In previous years we have coped in teaching two aplications - web-design
software and Excel - but the addition of a database has really added huge
problems to the task for our students.
I wrote earlier this year on the list about this problem but received no
response.
I would like to know what other teachers, the study writers and Paula could
suggest we do in this situation, knowing that these students are also
competing with others in the state who have good skills in all three of
these software applications.
Where my students are so poorly done by is that the time we spend on
teaching the software applications has to come from the time I would like to
teach them theory. This is what we will be doing during the vacation and in
the few weeks of Term 3, when other students will have the luxury of
revising the study.
I know there is no solution to this problem and that my students are really
behind a very large eight-ball.
The reality is that there is no longer a level playing field in ITA any
more. Requiring students to learn three software applications, complete 4
SACs (three of which are software based) and then have them to learn the
theory of the study design is a tall ask for any student.
My winge is for the plight of my students and any other students who are in
a similar plight. No-one is going to fight for them at this stage.
Geoff Moss
RMIT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maree Duivenvoorden" <MareeD at toorakc.vic.edu.au>
To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
<itapps at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] Answers...
> ITA is not running here at Toorak College either - which is very
> disappointing for me, as we have also had good results. The students
> below Year 12 have not had any 'core' IT classes and when this is the
> case, it is difficult for them to pick it up in Year 12 and learn the
> entire study. They are choosing subjects that have been given a 'pathway'
> through the school, and that frankly makes it easier on them.
>
> Maree Duivenvoorden
> Toorak College
> Old Mornington Road
> Mount Eliza Vic 3930
>
> 03 97887252
> mareed at toorakc.vic.edu.au
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Diane Peat
> Sent: Fri 9/21/2007 3:14 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] Answers...
>
>
>
> ITA is not running here at Firbank next year, despite good results over
> the
> years. Very sad (and a very sore point with me).
>
> By the way Brendyn ... I think you forgot to attach it.
>
>
> Diane Peat
> Firbank Grammar School
> BRIGHTON
> Telephone 9591 5188
> Email dpeat at firbank.vic.edu.au
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]On Behalf Of Brendyn Hancock
> Sent: Friday, 21 September 2007 1:41 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Answers...
>
> All
>
> Here is my suggested answers for the Superior Auto SAC.
>
> I have not completed the last few.
>
> I have written my answers in teacher form not full students ans form.
>
> Maybe it will help others.
>
> Have a happy hols everyone.
>
> We going through subject selection at the moment. I had 21 students
> this year. Next year I think I will be teaching SOSE. Struggling to get
> the kids for ITA 2008.
> What are others finding?
>
> Regards
>
> Brendyn
>
> Brendyn Hancock
> IT Manager
> bhancock at nagle.sale.catholic.edu.au
> ---------------------------------------------
> Nagle College
> 5152 6122
> Bairnsdale VIC 3875
>
>
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