[Year 12 IT Apps] OT: Computer rollover

Fri Aug 10 12:04:16 EST 2007

Good point Cameron. I have my year 9 research science students play Greenia,
a flash based game on the ABC website, another group I notice are playing a
historical simulation of the gold rush. Other students are trying to program
their own games. I am meeting up this lunchtime with another team that is
trying to make their own version of a Tower Defence type game using
GameMaker. More or less HOT (Highter Order Thinking) stuff.

Play is a legitimate educational activity in the context of a structured
curriculum. Free play is something we openly encourage and resource during
recess and lunchtime (* looks out of window at handball and basketball game
*). I will admit to running a computer games club but this is strictly done
'after school' on Friday that develops some valuable social and team skills.

The librarian permits the social use of the Internet after hours so that
International students can send e-mail messages home or catch up on overseas
news. He admitted that the library is now a friendlier place with a
cafe-club buzz including social readers (yes, they encourage book reading
for sheer pleasure!)

Regards Roland

On 10/08/07, Cameron Bell <bell.cameron.p at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>
> No it isn't. A chess board is not designed to be a flying toy and that
> is a a clearly inappropriate use. It comes down to what people accept as
> appropriate use. Computers are purpose built to communicate/play games
> etc - that is what they are designed/adapted for. What it is coming down
> to is the differences in what people think is "appropriate" use and what
> they define as an educational activity as opposed to "play". Would you
> kick my Pre-Cal kids out if they were "playing" the essi-money game at
> lunchtime? ( can *highly* recommend you look at that online game)  This
> game has clearly engaged a group of kids who just don't want to be at
> school. They are learning money and life skills - but many would kick
> them out for playing a *game*.  For the first time this year, I have had
> to order them to stop "working" and pack up!
> There are many advantages that kids can get from using computers in all
> manner of ways, not just research/ looking up the internet and word
> processing. I would argue that the benefit a pre-cal kid gets from
> playing that game is as important as my physics student using the
> computer to analyse a spreadsheet.
> Cheers
> Cameron
>
>
> Stephen Digby wrote:
> > Because....... They prevent other students from doing higher order
> educational activities on the limited
> > resource.
> >
> > Exactly as if you had one group of students wanting to use the chess
> board as a Frisbee and another group
> > wanting to use it to play chess.
> >
> > ====================================================
> > Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> > mailto: admin at cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> > Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> > Ph: 613 955 55 955  Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
> > ====================================================
> > I can levitate birds. No one cares   Steven Wright
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
> itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Meadows, Roslyn M
> > Sent: Friday, 10 August 2007 9:43 AM
> > To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] OT: Computer rollover
> >
> > Personally I don't see the hang up about playing games in the library at
> > lunchtime:
> >  - it is THEIR time
> >  - they can borrow backgammon, chess or a pack of cards in the library
> and play them at lunchtime, (often with
> > much more noise) so why not a computer game from a USB Bar or one they
> have created?
> >  - they are able to play games in the gym or on the oval at lunchtime -
> why not in the library?
> >
> > But still - not allowed in OUR library :(
> >
> >        Roslyn Meadows
> > Bentleigh Secondary College
> > 9579 1044
> > 0412 614 062
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Cameron Bell
> > Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2007 9:00 AM
> > To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] OT: Computer rollover
> >
> > In the development of new curricula we are finding that the line between
> >
> > personal/private use and "educational' use is getting so blurred as to
> be hopeless to distinguish between
> > them. Sometimes, even what many consider the most obvious transgression
> turns out to be justified. Kids
> > playing computer games was a big big issue for some staff in our library
> >
> > until we pointed out that they had actually created the games and were
> testing them on mates. To appease them
> > we opened up a lab for testing games to leave the library free for
> "traditional" study.  ;) If kids can't use
> > school computers for *occasional* private use, then I would feel an
> absolute hypocrite telling them to do
> > school work at home on the home computer. Wasting personal download time
> on study-related materials - goodness
> > me.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Cameron
> >
> > Stephen Digby wrote:
> >
> >> The rationale for internet/ printing charges is also that the purposes
> >>
> > of use are not necessarily curriculum
> >
> >> related and thus to allow open slather is to allow some students to
> >>
> > use scarce resources for private use
> >
> >> rather than educational use.
> >> There is even an equity argument to be made for educational use..
> >> ====================================================
> >> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> >> mailto: admin at cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> >> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> >> Ph: 613 955 55 955  Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
> >> ====================================================
> >> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour in only ten
> >>
> > minutes.  NOT a Steven Wright joke   Rod
> >
> >> Schmidt
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >>
> > [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Cameron Bell
> >
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2007 9:51 PM
> >> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] OT: Computer rollover
> >>
> >> Most schools do actually levy charges for other "addons", particularly
> >>
> > for practical / elective subjects, so
> >
> >> user-pays isn't limited to Internet access.
> >> Many of us do now view net access as an essential and indispensable
> >>
> > part of available educational resources,
> >
> >> however this isn't always appreciated by those who haven't taught in
> >>
> > the net age and now administer. They
> >
> >> often only see it as a cost.
> >> I / we decided not to charge students for it when it became obvious
> >>
> > that charging for access was hampering the
> >
> >> delivery of the curriculum.
> >> Cameron
> >>
> >>
> >> Russell Edwards wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 08/08/2007, at 5:51 PM, Brendyn Hancock wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> My experience has been that recovering $$$ from student internet
> >>>> users has only ever been token. Its more that you are teaching them
> >>>> responsible use of costly resources than it is a significant income.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> I can see the reasoning behind the above... but on the other hand I
> >>> don't see why schools are so fussed about their internet bills, nor
> >>> why they advocate a user-pays system for the internet but nothing
> >>> else. The internet is more useful than the library in most subjects
> >>> other than, perhaps, English. How much does the library cost to run
> >>> per year? And, how much does IT support cost per year? People seem to
> >>>
> >
> >
> >>> stress out about internet bills < $10k/year. I would have thought in
> >>> consideration of the amount spent on library and IT staff, the
> >>> Internet would be worth having even at $100k/year. (And no, the
> >>> Education Channel doesn't count as "the Internet" in my view.) When
> >>> you consider that the staffing costs overall for a school of 1000
> >>> pupils must be in the millions of dollars per year, 10k is peanuts!!
> >>>
> >>> Am I missing something?
> >>>
> >>> Russell
> >>> Whittlesea SC
> >>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College
http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead
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