[Year 12 Its] Re: [Yr11InformationTechnology]ProgrammingAwards2006: PD Regi

Tue Jun 6 22:27:03 EST 2006

Hi Jack (and all)

I agree with you in many ways.  There is one thing that we all have in
common - that is a desire to motive and inspire our students!  I use VB.Net
and am an advocate of its use in schools - however, I do not want to enter
into a debate over why I feel this way (you say potato and I say potato! -
which sounds better than it reads BTW).  Just as I do not post negatively
about the use of any language or tool, I would prefer others did the same -
rather, post resources and ideas with which specific languages and tools
that can be used.  

For the record, I also teach C++, GameMaker and DarkBasic.  In fact, I do
strongly believe it's healthy to expose our students to a variety of tools.
In this ever changing industry, they need to be versatile.

Take the Programming Awards for what it is - a competition based on VB.Net.
There are other competitions out there - in fact, please put together one
yourself (as Keith Richardson did with the highly successful 3in6 comp.)
VITTA would be happy to help you promote it!

Also for the record, and as a representative of VITTA, I feel I should say
that VITTA is promoting this competition in conjunction with Microsoft and
DE&T not out of an allegiance to VB.Net, but as a service to students,
teachers and schools.  VITTA also has the following fine products which I
would encourage you to check out: a Programmer's Toolkit (Java, PHP, MySql,
RedHat Linux OS, Freesco Linux, Apache Web Server, Tomcat, JavaScript, and
more), JavaFusion (Java, Javascript) and is currently developing a Game
Design resource kit which will have resources for GameMaker, DarkBasic and
RPGToolkit.

Adrian Janson

-----Original Message-----
From: is-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:is-bounces at edulists.com.au] On
Behalf Of Jack Matthews
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 6:00 PM
To: is at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Year 12 Its] Re:
[Yr11InformationTechnology]ProgrammingAwards2006: PD Regi

Behind you 100% Con Zymaris

I think it's ridiculous that schools are openly promoting a software brand 
(Microsoft).  In my opinion all schools should have access to alternatives, 
in particular Linux.

I also agree that VITTA & Microsoft should have allowed any language to be 
entered into the programming competition.  The fact that they only offered 
VB is a clear example of Microsoft's ulterior motives.

Get students hooked!

I know personally, that I have students that have entered the competition 
that would rather program in C++ or JAVA than VB.NET.

>From some of the posts I have read here, it is clear that possibly some
feel 
very uncomfortable with the prospect of anything other that Microsoft.

Possibly a lack of exposure to anything else!!

and so the cycle goes on..........

>From: Con Zymaris <conz at cyber.com.au>
>Reply-To: "Year 12 Information Technology Systems Teachers' Mailing 
>List"<is at edulists.com.au>
>To: "Year 12 Information Technology Systems Teachers' Mailing 
>List"<is at edulists.com.au>
>Subject: Re: [Year 12 Its] Re: [Yr11 
>InformationTechnology]ProgrammingAwards2006: PD Registrations
>Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:11:11 +1000
>
>On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 11:43:23AM +1000, Kevork Krozian wrote:
> > Hi Con,
> >
> >    The three obvious question are:
> >
>
>Thanks for your thoughtful questions, Kevork.
>
> >     1. Are you aware of any efforts to initiate other programming
> > competitions through DET that have been blocked ? if not , why not offer
> > to promote and initiate a broader programming competition for schools
> > rather than call it non-Morosoft ?
>
>You bet.
>
>Several years ago, we approached DET to help push Wide Open Code, a
>programming competition focussed on open source tools and platforms.
>After many months of discussions, we acheived little in getting their
>assistance. We ran the competition anyway, but without broad DET support,
>we cannot hope to reach most schools and therefore most students.
>
>Remember, we don't have Microsoft's marketing muscle nor their deep
>pockets - we are all volunteers with a community focus. We need DET
>assistance to disseminate information and to publicise events more than
>Microsoft does.
>
> >
> >     2. What efforts have been made to offer other, non Microsoft
> > software to DET and where have these efforts led ?
>
>For over 4 years now, Open Source Victoria has made a concerted effort to
>get DET to look at alternatives to Microsoft platforms on the desktop.
>We've had meetings, emails, phone calls - nothing has happened in that
>time. Nothing looks like it's happening in the mid-term future.
>
>In addition, several years ago, the Ministerial Council on Education,
>Employment, Training and Youth Affairs (www.mceetya.edu.au) asked the
>state DETs to prepare guidelines for the adoption of open source software.
>Nothing came of that.
>
>More information? Whenever DET puts out a tender to supply software for
>desktop OSes and productivity software, the open source industry is not
>invited to bid for any of that business.
>
>Software refresh cycle after software refresh cycle, Microsoft is awarded
>the business without real competition. The last cycle gave Microsoft $23
>million:
>
>  
>http://www.tenders.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/eTenders/etdrPublishing.nsf/
ContractsAll/693020B2BDD8448BCA256E2B00077E25?OpenDocument
>
>The reality is that the state Departments of Education are the most
>pro-Microsoft agencies in the country.
>
> >
> >     3. What industry and tertiary education uptake is there for
> > Microsoft and non Microsoft software ? If 95% of industry uses Microsoft
> > products, schools and DET would be negligent in not exposing students to
> > this community mainstream would they not ?
>
>For industry, 20% of the server industry is now Linux and open source. 70%
>of the web-development market is Linux and open source. 10% of office
>suites are now open source as are 10% of web browsers. All these segments
>are growing 300% faster than industry average. It's also worth reading
>this:
>
>  http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2006060202826OPMRDV
>
>As for universities, almost all Australian universities focus a major
>portion of their IT courses on Linux and open source software. If you care
>for references, I can point you to the lecturers themselves.
>
>Exposing students to Microsoft is not the problem. Feeding them a diet of
>almost nothing but Microsoft platforms, web-browsers, dev tools, office
>suites etc is the problem.
>
> >
> >
> >    Over to you
>
>Thanks again for the opportunity.
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Con Zymaris
>
>- CEO, Cybersource Pty. Ltd.
>- Director, Open Source Industry Australia, Limited.
>- Convenor, Open Source Victoria (A Government-funded industry cluster.)
>
>--
>___________________________________________________________________________
>Con Zymaris <conz at cyber.com.au> Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne, Australia
>Cybersource: Australia's Leading Linux and Open Source Solutions Company
>Web: http://www.cyber.com.au/  Phone: 03 9621 2377   Fax: 03 9621 2477
>
>
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>and
>http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers 
>Association Inc

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