[Year 12 Its] VELS and IT

Sat Jun 3 17:13:46 EST 2006

Actually Frank, that's not what I said.

First when I said: '...how it works isn't considered important' - I did not
say that I did not consider it important.
Second, in the context of the 'interdisciplinary use of IT' I said 'What is
important is "can I use the tool well?" ' - and in that respect, judging by
your comments, we would be in furious agreement as to what 'well' means.

The issue you riase is a fair one: what is the best way to turn out students
who use the technology 'well'?

I agree that relying on non-IT teachers in the first instance is problematic
and I think a Year 7 foundation style course is called for, but there are
two related issues:
1. Just because we IT teachers teach them does mean they will become good
users - how many times have you seen the situation where you badger kids in
your IT classes into putting on footers with their name on, and they do it
for the rest of the IT unit, only to see those same kids handing in badly
word processed work to an English teacher with a hand written name at the
top. I don't see this as any different from training students to put
margins, headings, dates, etc in their Maths workbooks, only to have
some/many of them abandon these good habits as soon as they're out of your
sight. So, training students in IT is a first good step, but how do you
maintain that good practice once they leave your class. It can only happen
if those other non-IT teachers are on board as far as setting expectations
is concerned. I would also suggest that every piece of assessable work that
comes off a computer should, no matter what the subject, have at least one
assessment criterion aimed at sound use of IT.
2. With the greatest respect to primary teachers, the fact is that many
students come from primary school (or perhaps home) with bad habits that
need to be unlearned before you can start inculcating the good habits. And
in my experience those habits can be damned hard to shift.

So, having specialist IT teachers train students initially is probably a
good first step, but it cannot be the only step!

Regards
Robert T-A
Brighton SC

----- Original Message -----
From: <frankm at sjcs.melb.catholic.edu.au>
To: <is at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 Its] VELS and IT

Thanks Robert,
I assume you see no merit in learning programming, or robotics? Do you
believe using the "tool" well means having students being taught the basics
of ICT in several different ways by several different teachers in other KLAs
where the teachers have little or no interest in teaching ICT skills? I see
the work produced in many KLAs..masses of Word Art, no formatting to speak
of, backup procedures unheard of, and of course, how could I forget, the
hand written name on the hard copy. Some knowledge about how IT works would
surely be beneficial in our schools. I am sure you would not be surprised,
but there are many students who love knowning about how the hardware works.

Far too often, the excuses used will be "could not get into a computer
room"..or..."we ran out of time". What happens is that those students in
classes where ICT skills are taught well will be advantaged; those in
classes where the teachers are not so keen miss out. Is this the sort of
basic ICT foundation we want for our studnents?

Regards,
Frank

"Robert Timmer-Arends" <timmer at melbpc.org.au> on Fri, 2 Jun 2006 18:04:18
+1000 wrote:
> Hello Frank
>
> While I too lament the loss of teaching 'real stuff' about computers, I
think the answer to your questions is "when was the last time you taught
someone how a pencil works, or a calculator, or a car?"  When viewed as a
tool for use across a variety of situations - and IT is - then how it works
isn't considered important. What is important is "can I use the tool well?"
>
> I don't have a problem with the use of ICT being seen as
interdisciplinary, but I think the effective loss of technology as a whole
in the curriculum is a problem.
>
> Regards
> Robert T-A
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Frank Merlino
>   To: yr7-10it at edulists.com.au
>   Cc: is at edulists.com.au
>   Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:46 PM
>   Subject: [Year 12 Its] VELS and IT
>
>
>   Dear Colleagues,
>   Maybe someone can share their knowledge about this one with me....
>
>   In the design of VELS, where did the "planners" think such areas as
computer programming, robotics, learning about how computer systems work,
etc were going to fit? One would imagine that in this day and age, it would
be considered essential learning to know something about how hardware works,
how programs work, how robotics is implemented and its basics, etc. Do the
"planners" in their wildest dreams think these topics will be covered well
in the "disciplines"? What's your opinion?
>
>   Regards,
>
>
> Frank Merlino
> Technology (IT and Systems) Co-ordinator
> Web Site Manager
> St. Joseph's College
> 135 Aphrasia St, Newtown
> Geelong, Victoria, Australia, 3219
> Phone: 03 52 268100
>   _______________________________________________
>   http://www.edulists.com.au IT Systems Mailing List kindly supported by
>   http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority and
>   http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
Teachers Association Inc

---
Frank Merlino
St. Joseph's College
135 Aphrasia St
Newtown, Geelong, Vic
Australia, 3220
(03 52 268100)
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Systems Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
and
http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers
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