[Year 12 Its] Re: Naming Conventions

[Con Zymaris]

On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 09:46:58PM +1000, Bricks J. Winzer wrote:
...

> > Java derives from C++ not C.
> 
> Is there really such a difference between C and C++?  I'm told there

Initially, there was less of a difference. 

A tidy programmer could achieve all that C++ offered in C, by being very
strict in using function pointers in data-structures to mimic
object-oriented function methods. The data elements in your C Struct where
your OO attributes, and the function pointers where the methods that acted
on them. That's how it all worked.  Nowhere near as 'clean' as Smalltalk,
but fast-fast-fast.

The C++ 'compiler' just removed that weary manual tidyness aspect - it
acted as a safety net. Function pointers are dangerous things afterall ;-)

Now, C++ has become a complexity monster, much like Java. Most 'mere human'
programmers would have trouble mastering either language.

> is (by programmer friend who thinks I'm an idiot for thinking there's
> no difference ;)).
> 
> > While we're on it, I'm sure you're all aware that Microsoft didn't write
> > Visual Basic? Alan Cooper of Cooper Software did:
> 
> I had a feeling that would be the case :)  I remember QBASIC from DOS
> 5.0 (and DOS 6.0 but not 6.2)... had it been in DOS 6.2 I think more
> people would remember the Snake game from QBASIC and not from Nokia :)

And before QBasic there was GW-BASIC for MS-DOS 2.x upwards. (Rebranded as
BASIC-A in genuine IBM PCs)

And before GW-BASIC there was MS-BASIC. 

And before MS-BASIC there was, well, let's see here...

MS-BASIC was the software program that was the foundation stone for 
Microsoft in 1975. How do you think it came about?

 Bricklin sent waves of laughter through the auditorium by reading a
 passage from Lammers' interview with Bill Gates in which the young
 Microsoft founder explained that his work on different versions of
 Microsoft's BASIC compiler was shaped by looking at how other programmers
 had gone about the same task. Gates went on to say that young programmers
 don't need computer science degrees: "The best way to prepare is to write
 programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In
 my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I
 fished out listings of their operating systems."

 Bricklin finished reading Gates' words and announced, with an impish 
 smile, "This is where Gates and [Richard] Stallman agree!"

 http://www.dynamicobjects.com/d2r/archives/002646.html

So, you see how it works? Bill Gates can start a big business by 
purloining others' 'open source' code, but he doesn't want you or your 
students to do the same thing ;-)

By the way, (Dan) Bricklin mentioned above, was co-creator (along with Bob
Frankston) of the Visi-Calc spreadsheet, the world's first, and perhaps
single most important application ever for business PCs. 

You see, you could always use an IBM word-processor (the real ones, not
the apps on PCs ;-) to do your letters. But what, as a business, could you
do spreadsheets on in 1979? 

Nothing. 

You did all that by hand. So when Visi-Calc came out, hallelujah! It made
it worth buying a PC for $10,000.  

Remember, back then, a new Holden Commodore cost $7,950.

> > If you want to teach join-the-dots snap-lock prgramming, then VB is fine.  
> 
> > If you want to do anything more serious - for instance, show me how easy
> > it is to create linked data srtuctures in VB - then VB is more complex 
> > than C.
> 
> > One thing is certain - if all a student knows is VB, they are not taken
> > seriously as a prgroammer by the professional coding fraternity. They must
> > show they can scale mentally beyond VB.
> 
> You sound quite objective there :(

You bet. I spent most of my early 90s coding up 30+ software projects in
VB. By the end of it, VB was all I could do competently. VB does that to
you ;-)

Which is why I gave up programming to the younger smarter guys in the
office. ;-)

> I'll stick to VB.  The kids are more motivated by getting things to
> work, I'd rather have them achieving something than being frustrated
> by apparently-correct code which doesn't work (my experience with
> Java).

Java is too complex. Stick to Python. (www.python.org)

> 
> For the record, I'm in my second year of teaching.  I don't have the
> experience and expertise of some of the more hardened members of this
> list ;)

We're all here to share and learn.

Cheers,
 
Con Zymaris, Convenor
Open Source Victoria
http://www.osv.org.au/
-- 
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Con Zymaris <conz at cyber.com.au> Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne, Australia 
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