[Year 12 IPM] ICT and IT? Justification
Mark Scott
msc at staff.luther.vic.edu.au
Thu Nov 17 10:16:46 EST 2005
FileMaker is great teaching tool for those students who will never
develop or seriously use a database but will need an understanding of
what one is.
Access is a dreadful teaching tool, students are able to successfully
create a semi-sophisticated database with out understanding what they
are doing.
IM(ns)HO
Mark Scott
Luther College
PS Haven't we had this conversation before once or twice : )
________________________________
From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Lel, Ronald A
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 9:18
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
Teachers'MailingList
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] ICT and IT? Justification
-----Original Message-----
From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of O'Connor, Peter T
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 3:16 PM
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
Teachers'Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] ICT and IT? Justification
Rod,
snipped
And don't get me started on Access -no one in their right mind
would ever use seriously in business or anywhere else for that matter -
IMHO.
snipped
__________
Peter O'Connor
Bayside College
Oh really!! Peter, sorry but this is an extremely ill informed
comment, as well as being factually incorrect. FYI there are many
companies which develop in Access. A very common application is an
Access front end hooked into a SQL backend for example. Other companies
develop full solutions in Access, especially for smaller to mid range
businesses.
Now Filemaker otoh is an application that is not used seriously
in the IT world, but seems to have cropped up in educational settings.
Ron Lel
Croydon Secondary College
________________________________
From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Rod Kendall
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 12:59 PM
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
Teachers'Mailing List
Subject: [Year 12 IPM] ICT and IT? Justification
Dear All
This follows on from the discussion that Keith started months
ago.......
I think that we need to get clear in our own heads the
difference between ICT and IT.
Here are a few questions that need to be answered?
As a subject area, do we not have content that is subject
specific to be taught ? Eg SDLC, Hardware and Software. I see IT
curriculum as important as any other subject area. We have a curriculum
that culminates in a VCE study either IPM or IS. It is ridiculous to say
that students can turn up in Year 10/11 and suddenly acquire the full
range of skills and knowledge to pass these VCE exams. We do not do that
to students of English. (My College teaches the basis of programming
concepts and the SDLC (and other like topis) as low as Year 5 - this
provides the basis for a steady build up of skills and knowledge through
Year 5, 6, 7 , 8 , 9 (compulsory IT) and Years 10,11, and 12 (optional).
Are there not skills that IT will teach that may not be covered
in an ICT based curriculum? Eg creating access databases, how to connect
up a scanner etc
I find it hard to swallow that we cannot justify our own
curriculum.
These are my thoughts...interested in others
Rod
Rod Kendall
Head of Information and Communication Technologies (ICT)
Head of Information Technology (Keilor Campus)
Overnewton Anglican Community College
2-30 Overnewton Rd
Keilor VIC 3036
Direct Tel : 03 9334 0134
Mobile: 0418 138 601
Fax: 03 9336 1835
________________________________
From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Martin, Michael M
Sent: 16 November 2005 12:22 PM
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
Teachers'Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IPM] RE: ICT Coordinator duties and time
allowances
I have concerns with ICT according to VELS. Our IPM classes
are down from 3 this year to 1 next year. My principal is talking about
removing IT from Years 7 and 8, making 9/10 as electives and teaching
ICT skills across the other subject. Many teachers seem to have
concerns. What are the navigator schools doing? What is their approach
to ICT according to VELS? Please advise.
Michael Martin
Copperfield College
________________________________
From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Roland Gesthuizen
Sent: Mon 14/11/2005 4:39 PM
To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
Teachers'Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] RE: ICT Coordinator duties and time
allowances
Thanks for the post Leanne, sad to read some of these changes
going on
around the traps. How do they fit into the broader context of
the
implementation of VELS into your school? We may need to watch
that we
don't inflict up on students a new ailment of "IT death by
Google or
powerpoint". It has taken some convincing here that IT has been
much
much more ever teaching kids how to use PowerPoint.
Somebody asked what it would take to replace an ICT trained
teacher. I
have been a wag to respond in kind if there was a 2 hour
workshop that
an ICT teacher could do before teaching a year 10 English class
..
afterall, don't we all speak, read and write English? (no
disrespect
intended to English staff) I have also insisted that I embrace
my work
as part of a professional learning team but will be offended if
I am not
consulted or it is assumed that I have been.
I like some aspects of VELS but also understand that most IT
trained
teachers have studied long and hard to qualify for their method
area.
Naturally they may feel quite alone and humiliated if they are
sidelined
and marginalised from any discussions about these changes.
Regards Roland
Biggins, Leanne D wrote:
>Hi Ros,
>This year at Heathmont College, the program manager /
coordinator (me) has had 2 periods allowance per 10 day cycle - ie 1
period per week.
>The duties include liasing with the ICT tech staff who service
the entire college, looking after budgets and orders, and checking that
the relevant exams are prepared and submitted.
>Since I have been the only full time IT teacher for the last 2
years, most of this just related to me, but there have been up to 5
others taking a class or 3 here and there. I have done curriculum where
there were parallel classes to mine, and suggested units in the classes
that I don't teach, but I am not officially responsible for curriculum
and neither are any of the other program managers. Who is? I don't
know!!! I think that it is assumed that curriculum just hapens!
>
>Next year my role will change - to help deal with VELs. I will
be a teaching and learning coach with a focus on ICT and still have the
program manager's responsibilities. I will have 9 periods per cycle. We
have lost IT at years 8 and 10, and have had a semester block at year 7
in all of my time at this school. My role next year will include going
into other classes to help students / staff to cover the integrated IT
and to help students to progress in their skills there. I guess I will
be asked advice as well, since there will not be time to go into as many
classes as would like to utilise my presence.
>
>We'll see how it goes next year. I see it as a postion full of
potential and positives, but it may all fall over. I despair that
students will only use the skills that they come in with initially, and
I hope to help them progress.
>
>Leanne Biggins
>Heathmont College
>
>________________________________
>
>From: ipm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Meadows, Roslyn
M
>Sent: Thu 10/11/2005 1:58 PM
>To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
Teachers'Mailing List
>Subject: ICT Coordinator duties and time allowances
>
>
>I am currently pushing to have an ICT Coordinator position
reinstated in our school (we have had no position and no time allowance
available for this position this year)
>
>Just a quick email asking others briefly
>
>
>*
> What are your responsibilities?
>
>*
> What is your time allowance?
>
>Any feedback asap would be really appreciated
>
>Cheers
>
>Ros Meadows
>Bentleigh SC
>9579 1044
>meadows.roslyn.m at edumail.vic.gov.au
>
>"Furious activity is no substitute for understanding." H. H.
Williams
>
>
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--
Roland Gesthuizen - eLearning Coordinator - Westall Secondary
College
http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au
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Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
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the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
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unsubscribe
IPM Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
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Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
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