[Year 12 IPM] raw xhtml, css, javascript pathway

Mon Jul 4 18:31:57 EST 2005

thanks keith, robert,

the raw xhtml, css, javascript pathway is more difficult than a visual 
editor but it does potentially open a real pathway into developing web apps, 
eg. AJAX is a big new buzzword

for me it's important that students grasp the concept of markup - markup is 
crucial but not really hard, it's not programming - I see a danger in using 
visual editors that the fundamental importance of markup might be lost or 
not even noticed 

these sort of decisions are important at the outset IMO - there are many 
distractions around, for students and teachers, so I think it's best to 
identify fundamentals on day one and pursue them 

one way to teach CSS is by templating - give the students a CSS template and 
then ask them to change the property values to alter the appearance of the 
web page, something like -

<style>

body {
 margin: 10% 5% 10% 5%; /* top, right, bottom, left */
 background-color: lemonchiffon; /* ALTER */
 color: crimson; /* text colour - ALTER */ 
}
etc.

there are a lot of permutations possible in this discussion - I'd like to 
start a new thread and offer some materials - worksheets, examples

sorry for distraction from main thrust of keith's original post and tony's 
follow up
-- 
Bill Kerr
http://billkerr.blogspot.com/
http://intranet.woodvillehs.sa.edu.au/kerrbi/index.htm

On 7/3/05, Keith Richardson <keithcr at fastmail.fm> wrote:

Thanks Bill and Robert. You are having an impact on me! I have started
> to explore CSS, and was totally blown out of the water when I discovered
> how easy it was to make something happen exactly the way I wanted after
> arm-wrestling with Front Page for years trying to get it to do the same.
> Wow!
> One site I found helpful is http://www.tizag.com/cssT/pclass.php etc.
> When I experienced Front Page 2000 responding obediently to CSS
> instructions, yet crashing when I wanted to use it to edit the CSS file
> ( I used Notepad instead) I decided to explore Dreamweaver that I have
> had for some time, but lacked the time and motivation to get into it. It
> certainly seems to support CSS more fully, but time is early...
> Fundamentally I am not a programmer so am content to use a web editor
> such as Dreamweaver, but want to exercise maximum control over the
> finished product, and have it do precisely what I have in my
> 'designer's' mind.
> Keith
> 
> 
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 15:19:17 +1000, "Robert Hind" <robert at yinnar.com>
> said:
> > Re year 10 plus:
> >
> > I too am a fan of teaching students to use HTML directly. Mainly because
> > I believe that the students should know what is going on "behind the
> > scenes" before they launch into a wysiwyg program such as Dreamweaver.
> > Non-standards-compliant programs such as Front Page should be relegated
> > to the lowest rank, even if they are easy to use and readily available.
> >
> > CSS, HTML, JavaScript: all great and I think that our IT students should
> > be following this path rather than even Dreamweaver because part of 
> their
> > IT education is learning how things work rather than just being able to
> > "do it".
> >
> > But so many of the students are after the "quick fix". What do they
> > want?" "Results." "When do they want them?" "Now." - or preferably last
> > week. They have chosen to study IT and it should be made clear to them
> > that we are not simply following the ICT path, but rather showing them
> > how things work.
> >
> > Robert Hind
> > Ashwood College
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bill Kerr
> > To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management
> > Teachers'Mailing List
> > Cc: List Yr7-10it
> > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 1:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] New Yr10IT Course - Construct-ion-ivist
> > Approach
> >
> >
> > hi keith,
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your plan.
> >
> > Task 10 - Website
> >
> > I'm a big fan of *not* using FrontPage because it is not standards
> > compliant, for example, the pages may not appear correctly in popular
> > alternative browsers such as Firefox.
> >
> > That's a pragmatic issue but the whole issue of web standards is an
> > important issue in its own right IMHO.
> >
> > One approach (the FrontPage approach) is to produce a webpage as
> > quickly and easily as possible.
> >
> > The other approach is to follow the modern, forward looking path of
> > clean separation of structure (HTML), style (CSS) and behaviour
> > (javascript) which will make webpages look better in a variety of
> > browsers, last into the future (as browsers improve CSS2, CSS3),
> > incorporate features such as disability access which ought to be of
> > importance to teachers, etc.
> >
> > I'm also a big fan of teaching raw HTML markup directly but that's a
> > separate issue. Dreamweaver, for example, is standards compliant and so
> > is a perfectly acceptable alternative to Frontpage.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Kerr
> > http://billkerr.blogspot.com/
> > http://intranet.woodvillehs.sa.edu.au/kerrbi/index.htm
> >
> >
> > On 6/29/05, Keith Richardson <keithcr at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > I have been impressed by the various approaches to ITC discussed
> > recently on these lists, and so decided to create an experimental
> > learning setting for my Year10IT class for Semester 2. I have played
> > with various forms of scenario-based integrative units before, as I
> > guess we all have, but decided to go all out with this one, utilizing
> > full-immersion lasting a full semester.
> > My kids seem to work best in situations where they are involved in
> > the
> > content, where there are clearly defined expectations, yet where
> > there
> > is also 'room-to-move'. I have built each of these elements into the
> > course.
> > I would like to eventually move towards a Moodle style of course
> > delivery, but at this point in time the learning curve (for me) is
> > toweringly steep, so have decided to be more conventional and during
> > the
> > semester in my own time try adapting it across to Moodle. We will
> > see...
> > Please feel free to modify and adapt in any which way (all I ask is
> > that
> > credit be given for original authorship). It should be easy to change
> > the cultural setting to suit your kids, and to adjust the various
> > software and tasks to suit what you prefer to do.
> > My whole thesis is that ICT and associated software programs should
> > be
> > there to serve other purposes. There will be times when it is
> > essential
> > to pause from the theme and teach just software but just sufficient
> > to
> > put them onto the right track with correct procedures and the
> > discipline
> > of organized logic particularly in the field of file management.
> > As an aside I recommend taking a look at the Florida Gulf Coast
> > University tutorials for Word, PowerPoint, Excel and Access, as well
> > as
> > Wikipaedia for definitions and extended explanations.
> > Attached please find a copy of the course.
> > I would be very interested in and appreciative of critical feedback
> > please.
> > Regards, Keith Richardson
> > Keith Richardson
> > Leibler Yavneh College
> > Elsternwick Ph (03)9528 4911
> > keithcr at fastmail.fm
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> > IPM Mailing List kindly supported by
> > http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
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> > Teachers Association Inc
> Keith Richardson
> IPM List Moderator
> Head of ICT, Leibler Yavneh College
> Elsternwick
> Ph: 03.9528.4911
> k.richardson at yavneh.vic.edu.au
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IPM Mailing List kindly supported by
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> Association Inc
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