[English] english Digest, Vol 68, Issue 15

Wed Sep 12 08:53:03 EST 2012

Hi all,

I do quite like the VCAA descriptors, but I only use them to check myself.
I don't love criteria sheets and I have an allergy to rubrics. Reductive and simplistic.
I use them entirely after the fact as a means of giving feedback and justifying the grade, not as a means of deciding on the mark or thinking about the work.
If we are uncertain or in dispute about work at year 12 we read the work aloud. This works every time. Somehow the voice, the flavour, the ideas, the intellect, the development and flow are all rendered obvious.

Then I admit I check my SAC marks against the exam mark and the final Study Score and like to see that I am in the zone for the cohort.

Then I sleep easy.
Greta Caruso

-----Original Message-----
From: english-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:english-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Skidmore, Kathy L
Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 8:18 AM
To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [English] english Digest, Vol 68, Issue 15

Thanks, Mary for your thoughtful reply - I agree about the holistic marking as it is very difficult to communicate each and every point to students in any meaningful way. However, when forming our criteria sheet, we inevitably have to refer to the holistic scheme in order for it to be
1) A fair representation of what is required,
2) properly weighted and
3) able to distinguish reasonably between different levels of responses.
I would also add here, that it needs to be as easy as possible for teachers to use it efficiently in the mad world of SAC marking - and cross-marking.
THEN, it has to make sense in a REAL way to students, so they can understand what it is they have to do.
It's an incredible juggling act - and one which I think, in the main, we do quite well. It's another task which is underappreciated by those NOT teaching senior English, or not in the profession; especially in that we really do agonize over it and try our very best to do it fairly and openly.
I like how you've separated the general ideas of the marking scheme into areas - thanks!
Micaela - thanks for the kind words - in my opinion, if you can't laugh, you shouldn't be doing this.
Cheers

On 9/12/12 7:19 AM, "Mary Mason" <mary.mason at bigpond.com> wrote:

>A suggestion. I think holistic is not good mainly because it is
>important for both the teacher and the students to think about what you
>are looking for in a Creating and Responding. Criteria are good here
>but only if the teacher has thought about what they mean. Criteria
>helps The teacher grade and helps the student because  know more
>precisely where they have succeeded and failed. Perhaps rubrics are too
>prescriptive in Creative responses but can be  useful in expository
>responses. Great care though must be taken in rubrics. It is so easy to
>put concrete facts down. It is much more difficult to put down the
>quality of the thinking and above all it is thinking which will be
>assessed.
>
>You are first of all looking at FORM- have they used a writing genre to
>develop their piece. I think, particularly in creative, this can go wrong.
>Students tend to just write without thinking of how to use setting,
>dialogue, first person narration, etc to develop their piece. They also
>do not have the metalanguage for this in their statement of intention.
>As an aside I wonder how much the loss of writing folio, and Naplan
>persuasive has stopped the process of teaching writing. The second
>thing is CONTENT. How much has the student referred to incidents like
>the texts or mirrored situations in the text and how authentic are
>they. I recently read some pieces that equated what was happening in
>concentration camps in Germany to what is happening to people at
>Christmas Island, repeating the same starvation stories. Students if
>they are to use these analogies need to do a lot of research into their
>chosen scenario in their creative pieces, so that they can work out
>similarities and differences. The third thing is the WRITING itself. Is
>a creative writing piece of the 'dark and stormy night'
>cliché or does the writing sound authentic and is their detail there.
>Does the writer show not tell in a creative piece? In expository or
>persuasive do you feel the passion of individually constructed
>arguments which are detailed? Are they backed up with reference to
>other issues? The fourth thing is very difficult, particularly in
>expository. It is the ARGUMENT.
>Is
>the student structuring lots of bits of text together or is there a
>genuine argument about the nature of conflict which is like a spine
>through the piece and which uses texts and issues to illustrate this
>argument. Fifthly of course there is ACCURACY.
>
>I think it is important to look at these things because it helps you
>teach.
>
>Mary
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: english-bounces at edulists.com.au
>[mailto:english-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Briscoe, Micaela
>J
>Sent: Tuesday, 11 September 2012 1:55 PM
>To: english at edulists.com.au
>Subject: Re: [English] english Digest, Vol 68, Issue 15
>
>Oh yay - this is my first time using edulists - lovely to get responses
>so quickly.
>
>Jan - our context is Encountering Conflict
>
>Kathy - you make me laugh (when I need to most!), thank you.
>Interesting that there are other options, I didn't realise. I think I
>prefer the holistic approach, I tend to fall back on that when the
>rubric doesn't seem to be working for me!
>
>:) Micaela
>________________________________________
>From: english-bounces at edulists.com.au [english-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>on behalf of english-request at edulists.com.au
>[english-request at edulists.com.au]
>Sent: Tuesday, 11 September 2012 12:00 PM
>To: english at edulists.com.au
>Subject: english Digest, Vol 68, Issue 15
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Yr12 SAC Rubrics (Briscoe, Micaela J)
>   2. Re: Yr12 SAC Rubrics (Skidmore, Kathy L)
>   3. Re: Yr12 SAC Rubrics (Jan May)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:17:50 +0000
>From: "Briscoe, Micaela J" <briscoe.micaela.j at edumail.vic.gov.au>
>Subject: [English] Yr12 SAC Rubrics
>To: "english at edulists.com.au" <english at edulists.com.au>
>Message-ID:
>
><D6A4E64EF94F9E4BA2524BD2A8B8FC55014F21A0 at EDUMBX07.education.vic.gov.au
>>
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi everyone
>
>I'm new to teaching Year 12 and still have that lost-but-learning feeling!
>
>One of the most daunting aspects of this year has been SAC marking.  I
>still feel rather confused about exactly what I'm looking for
>(particularly in
>C&P) and was wondering whether anyone has some really strong rubrics
>they could send through, for all areas of study.
>
>Cheers
>Micaela
>
>Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
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>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:36:41 +0000
>From: "Skidmore, Kathy L" <skidmore.kathy.l at edumail.vic.gov.au>
>Subject: Re: [English] Yr12 SAC Rubrics
>To: "VCE English Teachers' Mailing List" <english at edulists.com.au>
>Message-ID:
>
><B3BA06D5D5E312469DF287FF52D53A9C2B5C4C14 at EDUMBX03.education.vic.gov.au
>>
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>Micaela,
>Ahhh?.you've opened up another can of worms?.we've had constant
>discussions of how best to assess Yr 12; should we use rubrics? Should
>we use assessment criteria? Should we mark holistically ? as many PDs
>seem to advise?
>We settled on assessment criteria, but they have their limitations, as
>they can't possibly cover ALL the items in the holistic assessment.
>What do others do?
>
>Yes, it's a tough gig being a senior English teacher ? but it will only
>take you 10 years to feel comfortable ? then the rest of your career to
>continue to doubt yourself?but that's how it has to be. Personally, if
>I ever feel as though I have it all worked out, it's the time when
>something or someone will come along to challenge that, and make me
>re-think everything all over again. I think that's healthy, though.
>Good on you for taking it on.
>
>Kathy Skidmore
>Wanganui Park SC, Shepparton.
>
>From: <Briscoe>, Micaela J
><briscoe.micaela.j at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:briscoe.micaela.j at edumail.
>vic
>.g
>ov.au>>
>Reply-To: VCE English Teachers' Mailing List
><english at edulists.com.au<mailto:english at edulists.com.au>>
>Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:17 AM
>To: "english at edulists.com.au<mailto:english at edulists.com.au>"
><english at edulists.com.au<mailto:english at edulists.com.au>>
>Subject: [English] Yr12 SAC Rubrics
>
>Hi everyone
>
>I'm new to teaching Year 12 and still have that lost-but-learning feeling!
>
>One of the most daunting aspects of this year has been SAC marking.  I
>still feel rather confused about exactly what I'm looking for
>(particularly in
>C&P) and was wondering whether anyone has some really strong rubrics
>they could send through, for all areas of study.
>
>Cheers
>Micaela
>
>Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
>received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
>opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
>Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
>negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
>the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
>any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
>those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
>Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
>Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
>received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
>opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
>Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
>negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:13:39 +0000
>From: Jan May <Jan.May at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: [English] Yr12 SAC Rubrics
>To: "VCE English Teachers' Mailing List" <english at edulists.com.au>
>Message-ID:
>        <7F25A704-8436-467D-BF2E-2AD9D8A2AD81 at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Which context are you teaching, Micaela?
>
>Sent from my school iPad.
>
>
>
>On 11/09/2012, at 9:20 AM, "Briscoe, Micaela J"
><briscoe.micaela.j at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:briscoe.micaela.j at edumail.
>vic
>.g
>ov.au>> wrote:
>
>Hi everyone
>
>I'm new to teaching Year 12 and still have that lost-but-learning feeling!
>
>One of the most daunting aspects of this year has been SAC marking.  I
>still feel rather confused about exactly what I'm looking for
>(particularly in
>C&P) and was wondering whether anyone has some really strong rubrics
>they could send through, for all areas of study.
>
>Cheers
>Micaela
>
>Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
>received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
>opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
>Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
>negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
>the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
>any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
>those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
>Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE
>English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
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>-
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>[http://server7.stleonards.vic.edu.au/images/stleonardslogo.png]
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>
>'Jan May  English and Literature Teacher
>'163 South Road, Brighton East, Victoria 3187 Australia | phone [+61 3]
>9909
>9402       |       fax [+61 3] 9592 3439
>[http://server7.stleonards.vic.edu.au/images/iblogo.png]
>'Jan.May at stleonards.vic.edu.au | 'www.stleonards.vic.edu.au
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>End of english Digest, Vol 68, Issue 15
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>_______________________________________________
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe VCE
>English Teachers' Mailing List kindly supported by
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