[Informatics] Informatics data structures

[Lydall, Quentin C]

Hi Mark,
Since V and HLOOKUPs refer to specific ranges of cells they could be considered data structures, though I think of them as more like arrays you get in programming combined with simple query functions in databases. Excel is a remarkable and very powerful application. However, RDBMS is able to do what Excel cannot without writing macros: queries.
If you consider a case where student drivers apply for permission to drive to school via a form they complete, as happens at many schools with 18-year-olds, where you put the student data and car data from the form become the entity tables, and combined with the transaction table that links students to cars and probably lookup tables for things like home groups, you get the data structure that models what is happening in the real world. This is, somehow, very difficult for many students to grasp, as exam reports over the last decade indicate.
Cheers,
Quentin Lydall
Teacher
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From: <informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au>> on behalf of "timmer at westnet.com.au<mailto:timmer at westnet.com.au>" <timmer at westnet.com.au<mailto:timmer at westnet.com.au>>
Reply-To: Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List <informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Date: Monday, 5 September 2016 at 6:18 PM
To: Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List <informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Subject: Re: [Informatics] Informatics data structures

Hello Mark

actually, provided you don't enter it into the same column, Excel lets you do SUM(A:A) which is effectively SUM(column A)

Regards
Robert T-A


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Re: [Informatics] Informatics data structures


Hi Quentin

Oooh. Your reference to "within and across sheets in spreadsheets" made me think of worksheets, which may possibly be considered a 'structure'. Thanks!

I consider a 'structure' to be a defined and organised collection of more primitive entities.
 - A record is a defined set of fields.
 - A table is an organised set of records.
 - A VLOOKUP table in Excel is a delimited selection of rows and columns.

With such a definition in mind, it is interesting that Excel does not treat rows and columns as structures.
It does not recognise the concepts of fields or records, except when groups of cells are defined in VLOOKUP or HLOOKUP formulae. (Are there others?)

AFAIK there is no spreadsheet function that can do something like SUM(Column A) or AVERAGE(Row 32). Instead, the range of the relevant cells must be enumerated, e.g. SUM(A1:Z10).

Happy I am to be contradicted

Yoda Mark

On 5 September 2016 at 14:00, Lydall, Quentin C <lydall.quentin.c at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:lydall.quentin.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:
I am sure that data structures refers to the tables, records and fields in RDBMS as you say, Mark, and to rows and columns within and across sheets in spreadsheets. The terminology is what we used in commerce and industry as analyst programmers.
Quentin Lydall
Teacher

34 Alkara Avenue
Lara, Victoria 3212
P: 03 5282 8988 F: 03 5282 818
M: 0412523007
E:lydall.quentin.c at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:lydall.quentin.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>
www.larasc.vic.edu.au<http://www.larasc.vic.edu.au/>  <http://www.facebook.com/LaraSecondaryCollege>

From: <informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au>> on behalf of Mark <mark at vceit.com<mailto:mark at vceit.com>>
Reply-To: Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List <informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Date: Monday, 5 September 2016 at 1:47 PM
To: Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List <informatics at edulists.com.au<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>>
Subject: [Informatics] Informatics data structures

How now, brown cow,

Info U3O2 KK3 refers to  "data structures relevant to selected software tools".

First, I wonder, who has 'selected' these tools - the examiner or the student?

- If the examiner has selected them, they have forgotten to name them in the study design.
- If the student selects them, how can they be examined, apart from, "Select and name a data structure. (1 mark)"

Then I wondered which data structures are relevant to Info.

None is named in the study design. Sure, SD gets it easy: it is told to cover arrays, records, and associative arrays, but Info has to work it out alone.

Are we to interpret the KK as referring to:

- VLOOKUP tables (Excel)
- tables, records and fields (RDBMS)

- files? But not even CSV is covered in Info and (obviously) scary stuff like XML won't apply.

Can anyone think of any other relevant data structures for Informatics?

What if we just teach kids the Expectiminimax Tree, and the Fibonacci Heap and hope they can mention them on the exam?

With a friendly moo,
Mark

--

Mark Kelly

mark at vceit.com<mailto:mark at vceit.com>
http://vceit.com

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Mark Kelly

mark at vceit.com<mailto:mark at vceit.com>
http://vceit.com

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