[Informatics] Database choices for U3AoS1

Wed Jan 13 08:49:40 AEDT 2016

Hi All,

Laurie's right. It is a bit late to be debating about what database to use
for U3O1 however there has been a bit of discussion about using a LAMP
server or installing MySQL and using MySQL Admin to manage queries.

I would like to throw another suggestion into the ring. I use Rstudio
<https://www.rstudio.com/> for all of my data management and I think it
would be an excellent program to teach, starting at year 10, because it has
application for both year 11 and 12 in programming and research. It would
also help students at university level in their research in any subject.

I have included an attachment to demonstrate how SQL can be used to filter
and sort a table of data. It's a simple example but I think you will get
the idea. I used Markdown, which is a component of Rstudio, to create the
html attachment.

You will need to download the attachment and then run it a browser.

Regards,

Phil Brown
Wellington SC

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Mark <mark at vceit.com> wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I don't wish to tell people how to suck eggs, but a few people have asked
> me to recommend a RDBMS for them to teach for U3O1.
>
> I am finding it interesting that people are still thinking about the
> software to use for U3O1 when there are only about 3 weeks to go before
> classes begin (assuming you're doing U3O1 as your first outcome). I've
> found the mastering a new RDBMS is a major investment of time and effort, a
> task not be lightly undertaken in a hurry..
>
> Telling people what RDBMS to use is like telling them what sort of dog
> they should buy. It depends a lot on your local circumstances, computing
> platforms and servers, finances, technical support competence,
> dog-handing/database skills and so on. I usually tell people, "Use the
> database you already know the best."  You wouldn't want to be trying to
> teach kids to fully exploit a database that you yourself are only just
> getting used to.
>
> And though I used Filemaker for all database tasks when I taught - simply
> because I already knew it inside-out - if I had to choose a database for
> 2016, I wouldn't use Filemaker. It's expensive: education pricing for 25
> seats is $1,824 per year or $5,450 outright. And as others have mentioned,
> Filemaker is a bit eccentric in places, such as defining calculations as
> fields, and allowing repeating fields. It's like the Bjork of the database
> world.
>
> MS Access is not quite as easy to learn as Filemaker, but it is ubiquitous
> and there is a lot of support for it.
> MySQL - free and used everywhere - would be very attractive. I'd be
> tempted to investigate that.
>
> Regards
> Mark
>
> P.S. Just reminding you all about *Kellybase* - my DBMS written in
> 'Scratch' and available for less than $300,000 per seat, due to be released
> sometime in 2019.
> Order now.
> If I get a few sales, I might even make it relational, and add support for
> new field data types like integer, floating point, string and Boolean!
>
>
> On 11 January 2016 at 20:38, Laurie Savage <08327998 at pvgc.vic.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Download XAMPP it is fairly straight forwrd. Al my kid are using it. You
>> might need to to fiddle with the port settings once you are back on the
>> school network bu IO can show you how if you are at the session on 19/1
>>
>> Laurie Savage
>>
>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 6:21 PM, Sandra Mobbs <s.mobbs at cccc.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>> I tried learning PHP  last year with a view to u
>> sing PHP and SQL for the database component. Nutting out how to do it
>> over the Internet,  I downloaded WAMPP server to run the PHP but it
>> required administrator rights everytime I wanted to run a program.  I ended
>> up continuing with Access as neither the students nor I have administrator
>> rights.
>>
>> I would love to know how others are set up to use SQL so I can see what I
>> can organise to have another go.
>>
>> Sent from Outlook <http://taps.io/outlookmobile> Mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sandra Mobbs
>>
>> Teacher
>> <imagea013bb.JPG>
>> Caroline Chisholm Catholic College
>> 204 Churchill Avenue, Braybrook. 3019
>>
>> T:  03 9296 5311 | F: 03 9296 5381
>> E:  s.mobbs at cccc.vic.edu.au
>>
>> <image6bbdf3.PNG> <http://www.cccc.vic.edu.au/> <image84d4a5.PNG>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/carolinechisholmcatholiccollege>
>> <image97053c.PNG> <https://twitter.com/CCCC_Braybrook> <imagef75911.PNG>
>> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/103669887623517832436/103669887623517832436/posts>
>>  <imagee63a0d.PNG>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/2301162?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1403237262010%2Ctas%3Acaroline%2Cidx%3A2-2-7>
>> <imagea013bb.JPG>
>> <imageeae700.JPG>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 7:20 PM -0800, "Vella, James" <
>> jvella at mackillop.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Richard
>>
>>
>> My gut feeling would be to ditch FileMaker and go with either an SQL or
>> Access backend for your database. My reading of U3O1 is that a solution is
>> required to be produced (ie. Backend and UI). While the learning curve may
>> seem big this year, you could always introduce SQL or Access as part of
>> U2O3 this year and not have such a steep one next year.
>>
>>
>> My guess would be that Access is used more than FileMaker (given the
>> widespread availability of Office products) and follows a similar syntax to
>> SQL when you get past the wizard-based stuff.
>>
>>
>> For the U3O1 SAC, as I said, my reading is that a solution is required to
>> be developed using a RDBMS – that comes directly from the Outcome statement.
>>
>>
>> Hope that clears it up for you.
>>
>>
>> James.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *James Vella*Digital Technologies Learning Area Leader eLearning Leader
>> MacKillop College
>> Russell Street Werribee VIC 3030
>>
>> T:  +61387345200
>> F:  +61387345261
>>
>> webpage <http://www.mackillop.vic.edu.au/>    |    map
>> <https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/MacKillop+Catholic+Regional+College/@-37.898495,144.667368,14z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x86ef7579bb65ae76?hl=en>
>>
>> *Please consider the environment before printing.*
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au [
>> mailto:informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> <informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au>] *On Behalf Of *Fox, Richard R
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2016 12:56 PM
>> *To:* informatics at edulists.com.au
>> *Subject:* [Informatics] Database choices for U3AoS1
>>
>>
>> Hi, Happy New Year everyone!
>>
>>
>> I'd like to thank everyone for the excellent contributions made by
>> members of the list, it's a great community.
>>
>>
>> I'm interested to see what choices people are making for the database to
>> be used in U3O1. Last year I used FileMaker Pro, which I have some previous
>> experience in from many years back, but I have been working extensively in
>> mySQL since then for my own projects.
>>
>>
>> It seems the choices are:
>> 1) FileMaker Pro - easy to get started, good for form design, but
>> confusing when trying to separate database design (tables, fields, types,
>> validation) from UI which is done through layouts. Using portals as an
>> abstraction for relationships is also confusing. I found students could get
>> up to speed quickly with layout design but explaining queries was really
>> hard because it is all UI-driven, and finds are stored rather than
>> scripted. Also, it is very relaxed with data validation, so it will happily
>> let you do calculations with price values for example that have been stored
>> as a Text data type. Also, I don't think it is really used much in the real
>> world these days?
>>
>>
>> 2) SQL - I think this is really a better way to teach how a database is
>> structured, so that one can see it is just a data store and then one sets
>> up relationships between tables. It also enforces data types properly. I
>> found even whilst teaching FileMaker last year it was still easier to
>> explain queries using SQL statements. But is it too steep a learning curve?
>>
>>
>> 3) Microsoft Access -  I have not used this before, and really don't want
>> to invest time to learn it when I have other choices. From my understanding
>> it is not widely used anymore, much like FileMaker?
>>
>>
>> Of these, I'm still leaning towards using mySQL because (a) it lets one
>> concentrate on correct RDBMS design, without UI complications or
>> abstractions, (b) it is easier to check SQL scripts for correct operation
>> (c) it is far more relevant these days being the common foundation of web
>> apps using PHP and mySQL back ends, (d) it is free and cross-platform.
>>
>>
>> Where I'm still not clear is whether the study design says they have to
>> build a full application using a database (so, it has a UI), or whether
>> they only have to demonstrate correct table and relationship design. If
>> they are expected to make an end-user application then they would need to
>> use PHP in web pages to interact with the database, which would increase
>> the complexity of the task. But correct design, use of queries and
>> validation can be demonstrated through interaction with the SQL
>> interpreter. The other design requirements of the outcome could still be
>> met by layout diagrams, test plans, etc.
>>
>>
>> Looking forwards to some insights from others.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Richard
>> --
>> Richard Fox
>> Teacher of IT and Science
>> eLearning Coordinator
>> Learning Technologies and ICT Infrastructure
>> Diamond Valley College
>> 9438 1411
>>
>> *Important - *This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
>> received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening
>> or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any
>> loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender
>> or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files
>> our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
>> representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,
>> and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Training.
>>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>> This e-mail contains confidential information intended only for the use
>> of the name addressee. It may also be subject to professional privilege. If
>> you are not the named recipient any disclosure, copying, forwarding or
>> using any part of this e-mail or its attachments is prohibited. If you have
>> received this e-mail in error, please notify us by telephone on
>> 0387345200. MacKillop College does not warrant that this e-mail or any
>> attachments are error or virus free and recommends that all attachments be
>> checked for viruses and other defects. Similarly, MacKillop College does
>> not warrant that this e-mail has been free of interception by a third party
>> and may store the content sent to us, if we believe that we have a legal
>> requirement to do so.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> This Email and any attachments may be confidential and, if you are not
>> the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information in
>> this mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete
>> the Email and all copies. Caroline Chisholm Catholic College does not
>> guarantee that this Email is virus or error free.
>>
>> The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that
>> the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence
>> resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files,
>> whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not.
>>
>> The content and opinions in this Email are not necessarily those of
>> Caroline Chisholm Catholic College.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> VCE Informatics Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
>> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>> Teachers Association Inc <br>
>> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> VCE Informatics Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
>> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>> Teachers Association Inc <br>
>> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark Kelly
>
> mark at vceit.com
> http://vceit.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> VCE Informatics Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
> Teachers Association Inc <br>
> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/informatics/attachments/20160113/663b83ce/attachment-0001.html 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/informatics/attachments/20160113/663b83ce/Example_database-0001.html 