[Informatics] Secondary data

Wed Dec 7 18:22:51 AEDT 2016

I guess I just tell my students, "if you see it, hear it, collect it
yourself, it's primary". Everyone else's research is secondary.

How can you trust their data collection methods. They're counting cars and
they look away to check out the new mustang and miss a whole lot of car
counting, or skip a beat or something.

Let's keep it simple. Either way they have to aim to use both sources. And
if the difference is that delicate, they should opt to seek more/other
sources.

That's how I see it. xx

On Wed., 7 Dec. 2016 at 5:03 pm, Matheson, Heath A <
Matheson.Heath.A at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:

> Another way of looking at Primary/Secondary Data Source is:
>
>
>
> What/Who is the source?
>
> Is the stuff they are providing you primary or secondary?
>
>
>
> The intention is to collect some data that requires processing in order to
> form conclusions. That word source is really important.
>
>
>
> It does appear to be very closely related to collecting data versus
> information doesn’t it?
>
>
>
> Heath
>
>
>
> *From:* informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
> informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Litsa Tzelepis
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 7 December 2016 3:48 PM
>
>
> *To:* Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [Informatics] Secondary data
>
>
>
> hello everyone xx
>
>
>
> i found this:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.reference.com/business-finance/difference-between-primary-secondary-data-a8ab630428ba46b#
> <https://www.reference.com/business-finance/difference-between-primary-secondary-data-a8ab630428ba46b>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Roland Gesthuizen <rgesthuizen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hmm, a valid point mark but I think we are missing what we want our
> students to actually do.
>
>
>
> If I use the primary data collected by somebody else, say a CSV of raw
> weather data collected by the BOM without any manipulation  .. does this
> become secondary because it changed hands? Did I need to sit on the Viking
> Mars Lander weather station to measure the local climate, collect the raw
> data stream with my own radar dish, visit JPL to view the data file or
> download the identical copy here?
>
>
>
> To date, I have not heard from anybody that students must be the original
> collectors, curators and generators of all the research data. Whilst some
> chose to do this, marching north to knock on doors whilst clutching
> clipboards, it's a huge challenge to mandate this for all and I think it
> defeats the intention of the activity.
>
>
>
> My guess is that students need to source and use *'original research
> data'* .. untainted by the manipulating touches of any filtering, sorting
> or even a light breath of formatting. By my understanding, I want to see
> the students do all of this.
>
>
>
> By illustration, whilst I did not collect the weather information that was
> recorded in the 1800's, I can access the original research data directly
> from high quality digital scans of the original ship logs, digitise this
> and conduct an analysis on the original research data. Beyond climbing into
> a Blue Tardis, this is as primary and real as it gets.
>
>
>
> PS: The latter is a real citizen science, crowd sourced project by the
> way, https://www.oldweather.org .. I am currently at sail in the Indian
> ocean on a steamer to Africa .. i'll bring back some bananas back to
> distract Mark.
>
>
>
> Regards Roland
>
>
>
> On 7 December 2016 at 14:21, Mark <mark at vceit.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Heath
>
>
>
> I can't accept that 'secondary' is a synonym for 'processed' and that
> 'primary' simply means 'unprocessed' or 'raw'.
>
>
>
> If that were true, we could just refer to 'data' (unprocessed) and
> 'information' (processed) and not need the concepts of  'primary' and
> 'secondary' at all.
>
>
>
> Let's go Googling and see what The Real World is saying ...
>
>
>
> *The first hit on Google
> <https://www.reference.com/education/primary-secondary-data-5e4a8333252bf73b>
> for 'primary data' says:*
>
> "Primary data is original research that is obtained through first-hand
> investigation, while secondary data is research that is widely available
> and obtained from another party. Primary data includes information
> collected from interviews, experiments, surveys, questionnaires, focus
> groups and measurements."
>
>
> *The second says:*
> "Data observed or collected directly from first-hand experience. Published
> data and the data collected in the past or other parties is called
> secondary data."  Read more:
> http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/primary-data.html
>
> *The third says:*
> "Primary data is information that you collect specifically for the purpose
> of your research project. An advantage of primary data is that it is
> specifically tailored to your research needs. A disadvantage is that it is
> expensive to obtain... The source of your primary data is the population
> sample from which you collect the data. "
>
>
> *The fourth says:*
> "Primary data is original research that is obtained through first-hand
> investigation, while secondary data is research that is widely available
> and obtained from another party. Primary data includes information
> collected from interviews, experiments, surveys, questionnaires, focus
> groups and measurements. Secondary data can be found in publications,
> journals and newspapers."
>
> A trend is developing, I believe. For our purposes, I can only logically
> conclude that:
>
>
>
> A *primary* data source is surveys, questionnaires, observation *conducted
> by the investigator*.
>
> A *secondary* data source is any external provider of data or information
> that *have not been generated by the investigator*.
>
>
>
> And yes, I *am* arguing in my spare time.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 December 2016 at 11:10, Matheson, Heath A <
> Matheson.Heath.A at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>
> I had a chat with Paula and some other gurus about this the other day.
>
> Mark you are right expect the SAT always uses the term “primary data *sources”
> * which to me is confusing.
>
>
>
> We came to the conclusion that primary data sources are where you find
> raw, unprocessed data, like BOM hourly rainfall or temperature
> observations. You don’t have to get a rain gauge out to have a primary data
> source. Of course they can be where you measure it yourself as well. (I
> would call that primary data collection)
>
>
>
> Secondary data sources are where you find processed data, like averages,
> or opinions or YouTube clips on your topic.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Heath
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
> informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Mark
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 December 2016 10:17 PM
> *To:* Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [Informatics] Secondary data
>
>
>
> Hi Michael.
>
>
>
> OK. Re-reading your original post (seven months later) makes me realise
> that I missed your point entirely.
>
>
>
> *Secondary* data is created by people other than the researcher
> (regardless of its format - e.g. websites, infographics, other research.)
>
>
>
> *Primary* data is original : designed, gathered, coded and interpreted by
> the researcher for a specific, tailored purpose.
>
>
>
> Data or information gathered from *other* people's efforts is secondary -
> even if it *is* raw data. You, the user, may have no idea what sorts of
> loaded or leading questions were asked to gather that raw data, how the
> sample respondents were selectively chosen, or how the data were validated,
> fudged, or cherry-picked to prove a point. Data collected by someone else
> may be 'raw' but it does not mean it is authentic, genuine, accurate,
> complete, unbiased, or trustworthy.
>
>
>
> Also - for example - do you count someone else's calculated *average* as
> "raw data" or "information"?
>
> Any processing - even a simple 'average' - processes raw data into summary
> information - and we all know there are *three* different types of
> statistical average that can significantly and deliberately skew raw data
> into information that is convenient for the researcher.
>
>
>
> In short...
>
>
>
> - If *you, the researcher* did not do the interviews or write and conduct
> the surveys, you are using *secondary* data.
>
> - To collect *primary data*, one has to use one's own original surveys,
> questionnaires, observation, sensors, etc.**
>
>
>
> My 1.8 cents' worth (end-of-year sale! I have lots more unsold advice
> going cheaply! Enquire now! Beat the new year price rises!)
>
>
>
> I'd be happy to hear of differing interpretations of key knowledge.
>
> Classes have basically finished.
>
> You and I have time for a five minute argument
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y>*.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> * This link is dedicated to a good friend of mine on this list who
> confesses that she does not understand Monty Python.
> I ask you all to wish the poor lass well in her recovery. I fear that she
> may not even know the bandwidth of African or even European Swallows.
>
>
>
> ** This is where it gets a bit murky. One might well argue that you
> can use secondary data to generate new and original primary data for a new
> purpose. For example, summarising 100 years of death notices in newspapers
> to track average life expectancies over time. The old newspapers were
> secondary sources, but when used their information is used to derive new
> and original data for a new purpose, they would be considered primary
> sources.
>
>
>
> OK. It's not as black and white as most students hope it will be.
>
> Let's just tell them that primary data = home-grown survey, questionnaire,
> observation.
> Secondary data is data from everywhere else.
>
>
>
> Room 12A is free.
>
>
>
> On 20 May 2016 at 09:27, Poke, Michael C <
> poke.michael.c at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but just wanting to check,
> can secondary data include information from websites such as infographics,
> findings from other research, quotable quotes, or does it have to be
> entirely made up of raw,
>
> unprocessed data?  Sorry for posting what seems like a amateurish question.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> *Michael Poke*
>
>
>
> Senior Years ICT Teacher
>
>  Senior Years Digital Learning Leader
>
>
>
> *Manor Lakes P-12 College*
>
>  *2-50 Minindee Road*
>
>  *Wyndham Vale Victoria 3024*
>
>  *poke.michael.c at edumail.vic.gov.au <poke.michael.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>*
>
>
>
> *P.(03)97414202 <(03)%209741%204202>  F.(03)97411420 <(03)%209741%201420>*
>
>
>
>
>
> *Google+: **bit.ly/PokeGoogle* <http://bit.ly/PokeGoogle>
>
>
>
> *YouTube:* *bit.ly/MichaelPokeYouTube* <http://bit.ly/MichaelPokeYouTube>
>
>
>
> *Twitter: **@michaelpoke* <http://bit.ly/MichaelPokeTwitter>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mark Kelly
>
>
>
> mark at vceit.com
>
> http://vceit.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mark Kelly
>
>
>
> mark at vceit.com
>
> http://vceit.com
>
>
>
> Powered by *Bongo*
>
>
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> --
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> --
> *Roland Gesthuizen*
> http://about.me/rgesthuizen
>
>
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
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> --
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> Litsa Tzelepis
> Mount St. Joseph Girls' College
> 133 Maidstone Street, Altona, VIC. 3018
> htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au
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