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Hi,
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<div class="">Great discussion. <br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think sticking to 1 language through the pathway is very attractive. You get critical mass of resources and expertise - but do you find the 1 language is then limiting to students’ concept of programming and the diversity of languages? Can they
abstract programming ideas out of the specific language? I know there are y12 SoftDev places that use it, but I see you are using it for Informatics? That’s new to me. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The struggle I have with Python, which your pathway deals with, is the need to do HTML. Doing HTML/JavaScript and possibly adding on PHP (or Python) seems like a lot of groundwork to get to actually making something. Not to mention the hassle
of web servers, etc. At this point, I have Y7/8s doing some HTML, really just for interest, in the web unit, but coding would be Alice/GameMaker. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I don’t think we can set students up for career programming in a specific language though. My last industry job (2012) was a transaction website and we had stuff in Java and Python, but my husband works in Ruby now and the top rates I’ve ever
paid for programmers were at the start of iOS Cocoa Touch (now superseded). It’s a changing world out there … </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks Ken for the lead on Processing. (Yet another from MIT!!) There is amazing work happening out there on educational and purpose-built software. So much to choose from! A key choice for me is also the quality of existing teaching materials.
Not to sound lazy but this makes me prefer Alice 2 over Alice 3 (for example) because there is a significant investment in classroom stuff ready to go. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">At the moment I am trying to set-up Y7/8 for revised electives in Y9/10. In time, I am hoping to do a Y9/10 elective in programming using either
<a href="http://code.org" class="">code.org</a> AppLab or Visual Basic (maybe App Inventor?) plus an elective on pre-VCE Informatics incorporating VCE Computing U1&2 informatics content (Access databases). There is no guarantee the school would ever offer VCE
Computing 3/4 units, but I would like to make sure the Y9/10 electives are clear pre-VCE choices.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers, Mel</div>
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 13 Dec 2016, at 10:52 pm, Garth, Lucas A <<a href="mailto:garth.lucas.a@edumail.vic.gov.au" class="">garth.lucas.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">HI Mel (& other interested onlookers)<br class="">
<br class="">
At the moment I'm looking at having Python installed as our main programming language at Lalor Secondary College.<br class="">
<br class="">
The reasons:<br class="">
- It's likely to be high paying - sample: <a href="http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03" class="">
http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03</a><br class="">
- There are heaps of online resources including codecademy<br class="">
- It taps in to Raspberry Pi (they were created to facilitate the teaching of Python)<br class="">
- Programming language isn't the hardest to learn the basics (though admittedly not quite as easy as VB IMO)<br class="">
- Integration of turtle program into maths<br class="">
- National Code Challenge by GROK Learning is in Python<br class="">
- Feeds into Computing/Informatics nicely through the use of Beautiful Soup extracts (and Panda data analysis)<br class="">
<br class="">
Python's downsides:<br class="">
- Needs to be installed on every computer (therefore get an image) or else you go with a limited
<a href="http://pythonanywhere.com" class="">pythonanywhere.com</a> and rely on decent quality internet...might be a struggle in most govt schools...<br class="">
- Limited front-end development, unless you also teach a framework (which I think you probably should teach your students if they are going to go into a developer career - I'll be teaching my students HTML + CSS + Bootstrap to give them a good grounding for
the web). As I'm generally a better back-end developer, I prefer teaching basic ASCII art initially for the students to gain a concept of graphics, though I've also taught students a little bit of the Flask framework and it looked fairly straight-forward.<br class="">
<br class="">
How I'm planning to insert this into the curriculum (2017-2018)<br class="">
<br class="">
Year 7 - Limited programming in Digitech, however there will be teaching HTML/CSS and use of a CMS (e.g. Weebly / Wordpress). Maybe some basic Python if we are to link Raspberry Pi computers together with an Ethernet cable. Maths needs use of a general purpose
programming language and I'm encouraging the use of the Turtle app in Python, which is based on the Logo programming language for the more experienced teachers on list.<br class="">
<br class="">
Year 8 - Programming basics in Python. Use of mBots (with Scratch-like mBlock code structure) for a short sequence of more hands-on coding.<br class="">
<br class="">
Year 9 - Include Python programming in unit on game design using Pygame resources.<br class="">
<br class="">
Year 10 - Data extraction and manipulation using Python. Show the basics of Bootstrap alongside consolidation of HTML/CSS skills. Use of Grove Starter Kits for Arduino for hands-on coding.<br class="">
<br class="">
Year 11 - NCSS CHALLENGE - GROK competition - Python. Bootstrap usage for web development SAC. Learn SQL for databases.<br class="">
<br class="">
Year 12 - Encourage the use of Python (data extraction) and Bootstrap (data presentation) for Informatics SAT, and SQL for databases SAC.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Now - to develop the resources! Let me know if you've already headed down this rabbit hole!<br class="">
<br class="">
Lucas Garth<br class="">
Lalor SC<br class="">
<br class="">
-----Original Message-----<br class="">
From: <a href="mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au" class="">yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au" class="">mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of
<a href="mailto:yr7-10it-request@edulists.com.au" class="">yr7-10it-request@edulists.com.au</a><br class="">
Sent: Monday, 12 December 2016 2:54 PM<br class="">
To: <a href="mailto:yr7-10it@edulists.com.au" class="">yr7-10it@edulists.com.au</a><br class="">
Subject: Yr7-10it Digest, Vol 131, Issue 6<br class="">
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Today's Topics:<br class="">
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1. Re: coding in 2017 (Mel Yuan)<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
<br class="">
Message: 1<br class="">
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 03:52:48 +0000<br class="">
From: Mel Yuan <melyuan@hotmail.com><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] coding in 2017<br class="">
To: "Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List"<br class="">
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span><yr7-10it@edulists.com.au><br class="">
Message-ID: <A05757CD-6650-47ED-9E00-2323557005AE@hotmail.com><br class="">
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
I?m glad someone raised this language pathway issue.<br class="">
<br class="">
The problem is ? exactly what general-purpose programming language? Unfortunately most programming languages are pretty specific. JavaScript is oft-cited but this is not really a stand-alone language in the way, say, Visual Basic is designed to be. The Khan
Academy and code.org<http://code.org> teaching materials are great but they?re really providing a whole environment and therefore purpose for JS - something the language itself was not really designed for.<br class="">
<br class="">
Alice is designed to be object-oriented, so I?m happy these ideas could be introduced at 7/8. If you were really keen you could use Alice 3 and transition into Java. GameMaker for 7/8 also works for me as you have to build up a conceptual model of ?what is
a game??. In the next generation of the 9/10 elective I?m also flirting with the idea of Visual Basic because you can include ideas of Application Architecture (n layers). Microsoft has some pretty good pricing for things like Team Server for Education packages
- getting students into Visual Studio IDE with Team Server source control, now that is starting to look like real programming! I know Python has its fans at year 12 ?<br class="">
<br class="">
I take your point about Scratch. I think it?s okay if everyone does it year 1 but would like to have something different perhaps in year 2 at Y6.<br class="">
<br class="">
https://madmaker.com.au/ came to our school to use Arduino to teach Y9s programming. I see this as okay in year 1 but once you get a few students through you need to start building projects with more stuff. Someone told me about the sensor packs, etc. you can
get for Edison boards. I think these projects require a fair bit of investment in equipment. More so that straight-up programming which can be done on existing gear, cheap or free ?<br class="">
<br class="">
Over time I hope these descriptors become more, well, descriptive, in terms of programming ideas rather than using languages as a proxy.<br class="">
<br class="">
Compliments of the season all!<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers, Mel<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On 12 Dec 2016, at 1:32 pm, Grieve, Carlin C <grieve.carlin.c@edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:grieve.carlin.c@edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Good work Mel,<br class="">
<br class="">
Overall I think the learning path is the part that is the most important. You need to ensure that student capacity is built on each year, as it helps the students (As well as the staff ? ) Looks like you have this under control!<br class="">
Having different environments (IDE?s) is always a good thing too, so students do not get hooked on the idea ?I can only program in scratch?<br class="">
Ken was right in ensuring it meets the need of the curriculum though.<br class="">
? Yr5/6 Band: Develop digital solutions as simple visual programs (VCDTCD033)<http://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Curriculum/ContentDescription/VCDTCD033><br class="">
? Yr7/8 Band: ? using a general-purpose programming language (VCDTCD043)<http://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Curriculum/ContentDescription/VCDTCD043><br class="">
? Yr9/10 Band: ? using an object-oriented programming language(VCDTCD053)<http://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Curriculum/ContentDescription/VCDTCD053><br class="">
<br class="">
I am interested in what you do with Arduino?s at Year 8 though, as my first implementation failed big time (Expectations vs Reality)<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Kind Regards,<br class="">
<image001.png><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Carlin Grieve<br class="">
Learning Technologies Leading Teacher<br class="">
Epping Secondary College<br class="">
T: +61 3 9401 2599<br class="">
W:www.eppingsc.vic.edu.au<http://www.eppingsc.vic.edu.au/><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
From: yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au<mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of ken price<br class="">
Sent: Monday, 12 December 2016 1:13 PM<br class="">
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List <yr7-10it@edulists.com.au<mailto:yr7-10it@edulists.com.au>><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] Fwd: coding in 2017<br class="">
<br class="">
Doesn't year 7-10 require a general purpose programming language? (based on Aust Curric Digital Technologies)<br class="">
<br class="">
kp<br class="">
<br class="">
On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Mel Yuan <melyuan@hotmail.com<mailto:melyuan@hotmail.com>> wrote:<br class="">
Hi folks,<br class="">
Didn?t get much response from the Primary folks, per below ? what do you guys think?<br class="">
Considering putting MS Touch Develop in somewhere too ? anyone had experience with this? Microsoft have invested in a fair bit of curriculum materials.<br class="">
<br class="">
We?re doing some Robotics/Systems as well - Y4 Blue Bots, Y6 Makey Makey, Y7 Mindstorm, Y8 Arduino.<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers, Mel<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Begin forwarded message:<br class="">
<br class="">
From: Mel Yuan <melyuan@hotmail.com<mailto:melyuan@hotmail.com>><br class="">
Subject: coding in 2017<br class="">
Date: 9 December 2016 7:35:37 am AEDT<br class="">
To: primaryit@edulists.com.au<mailto:primaryit@edulists.com.au><br class="">
<br class="">
Hello all,<br class="">
<br class="">
I am starting a new role next year in DigiTech 4-10, having taught 8, 11, 12 (SoftDev) this year. The school has a new program, having offered compulsory IT in years 7-8 for some years.<br class="">
<br class="">
This is my current plan for coding in 2017 with a view to strengthening pathways over time. I?d be interested in your thoughts - do you do the same or different? Have a missed a language that is a must-have?<br class="">
<br class="">
I?m thinking that code.org<http://code.org/> is the theoretical ?backbone? that teaches concepts, and the other language is something they can make stuff with.<br class="">
<br class="">
Y4 - code.org<http://code.org/> Course 2, Scratch<br class="">
Y5 - code.org<http://code.org/> Course 2/3, Scratch<br class="">
Y6 - code.org<http://code.org/> Course 2/3/4, Scratch<br class="">
Y7 - code.org<http://code.org/> Accelerated Course 2-4, Alice 2<br class="">
Y8 - code.org<http://code.org/> Accelerated Course 2-4, GameMaker<br class="">
Y9/10 elective - code.org<http://code.org/> CSP course 3 AppLab, elective language (Scratch, Alice, GameMaker or other for project)<br class="">
<br class="">
It?s a small school and when the cohort grows, current students can keep progressing through code.org<http://code.org/> while new students start at Course 2 or Accelerated.<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers, Mel<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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Dr Ken Price MACS(Snr) CP ACCE Professional Associate.<br class="">
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