My introduction to computers / programming was idea driven - some of the ideas came from talking to others and other of the ideas came from books (I like books). Some of the ideas were -<br><ul><li>bulletin board systems as a different way to communicate
</li><li>recursion - the thought that it was an important idea that I could only understand it by learning to program</li><li>Papert's book Mindstorms - the idea that the computer could be a vehicle for powerful ideas for children
</li></ul>Syntax and operating systems seemed to be obstacles invented by some spoiler to slow down getting at the ideas<br><br>When I was a student at school there were no computers - there were some computers around at uni but they didn't sound all that interesting - the students talked about punch cards, speed and limited access
<br><br>Once I got onto the idea that certain things could be represented on the computer better than anywhere else (eg. fractals) then I bought more books to learn how to do it, so there were many hours spent<br><br>I like the "invitation to immersion" approach that you are suggesting rob:
<br><br><div style="margin-left: 40px;">"...any path is only a path. You can try it out as many times as you like.
If your heart tells you to go down that path then do it. Quality
learning can be achieved with computers using constructionist software
and aware teachers. Computer based constructionism (ie. programming) is
just an invitation to immersion. No one should be forced into it but
everyone should receive an invitation to quality use of computers. Very
few do."<br><a href="http://www.users.on.net/~billkerr/a/invite.htm">http://www.users.on.net/~billkerr/a/invite.htm</a><br></div><br>- Bill<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/17/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">
Costello, Rob R</b> <<a href="mailto:Costello.Rob.R@edumail.vic.gov.au">Costello.Rob.R@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><br>Following all these programming discussions with interest<br><br>Here's a thought for you...<br><br>How did you all learn programming?<br><br>What role did formal school have, if any?<br><br>How much personal time?
<br><br>I remember reading something David Perkins said - that in his<br>observations - circa 1985 - none of the budding student programmers he<br>observed had arrived at any competence without a huge personal<br>investment of time
<br><br>I've gone into bat for Logo in school at times - along the lines of<br>thinking "where is the DNA for a programming mindset for students,<br>unless we offer something parallel to the BASIC language I learnt".
<br><br>But maybe its the lack of a "BASIC" that is the real problem - a generic<br>(and fairly common) "Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code" on<br>most computers - and I guess that's whats under discussion in all these
<br>discussions - whats the best "BASIC" these days.<br>Maybe we just need to put a few good tools in their hands and start them<br>off - Alice, Scratch, Gamemaker, Squeak - whatever.<br><br>Let those who like it, run with it
<br><br>Maybe not Javascript, C#, Java, Actionscript etc<br><br>At least, not at first<br><br>Harder to get to an independent / creative level there, I reckon<br><br>(In spite of the prevalence of Javascript on the web, I think its pretty
<br>hard to deeply "get", without an OOP background)<br><br>I like the visual drag and drop of GameMaker - although it's a pity it<br>doesn't show the corresponding code when you drag in an "icon" - and I
<br>feel the pure coding side of GM is still quite tricky, a "curly bracket"<br>language, with events, object level scope etc - compared to the old<br>procedural BASIC, its not easy.<br>I know kids can dabble in a bit of code in GM, on top of their visual
<br>stuff, which is nice - but again how much are they "getting" in a<br>transferable way. I love its visual productivity - pity it doesn't show<br>the code of their visual efforts - a little like recording a visual
<br>basic macro.<br><br> I reckon VB is ok - if you can avoid the temptation to go GUI too early<br>- but the language has got so cluttered its not as much of a beginners<br>sand pit (.net even less so)<br><br>Anyway<br><br>
How did you all learn programming?<br><br>Cheers<br><br>Rob<br><br><br>Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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