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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Comments such as this demonstrate the ignorance of some people
who have obviously not considered what is involved in delivering VET
qualifications, or have personal chips on their shoulders and are taking it out
for their own personal reasons (not meaning you of course Kevork).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Let me put it this way – if I rocked up to your school
tomorrow without a Dip Ed but I had a Diploma in Training and Assessment, would
you say that I was suitably qualified to teach junior classes or VCE classes?
Assuming your answer is no, then why not? My Diploma is at the same level as
your Diploma? The answer of course is that the two systems are completely
different. You need a Dip Ed to teach in schools because the course teaches you
how to teach (in theory at least), and you need a Cert IV in Training and
Assessment because it shows you how to train. The two systems are different.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I have completed hundreds and hundreds of RPL claims for
secondary school teachers needing (or wanting) a Cert IV. The attitude
demonstrated below is prevalent in a minority of secondary school teachers
until such time as I ask them what a training package is, or what the AQTF is,
or what competency-based assessment is, or how they can make reasonable
adjustments to their training, or how they can determine training needs, or
what assessment validation is about, or what an assessment tool is, or what an
assessment matrix is, etc., etc., etc., and they then realize that they
do not in fact have the knowledge and skills required to deliver VET subjects because
this knowledge and skills is not delivered in a Dip Ed, or a Masters, or
a Doctorate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>People need to understand that secondary schools and VET are two
different industries. Could a Doctor build a bridge? Could an architect perform
root canal on your teeth? Seemingly silly comparisons, but it hopefully
demonstrates the difference between a Dip Ed and a Cert IV.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Allan Barnes, CEO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Australian Institute of Education and Training<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>P.O. Box 171<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Brunswick West 3055<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Melbourne, Victoria<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ph: (03) 9387 2051<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>FAX: (03) 9387 3470<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mobile: 0409 428 221<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
vet-mm-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:vet-mm-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Kevork Krozian<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 3 September 2009 9:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> vet-it@edulists.com.au; vet-mm@edulists.com.au<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Paul Kingston<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [vet-mm] CERT IV in Workplace Assessment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>Hi Folks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
You all know that I don't like to stir any controversial issues but this post
on whirlpool.net.au got me wondering what others thought about this issue:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>TAFE in WA after 1995 decided all teachers to have the Cert IV (Workplace
Assessment). What a lot of rubbish that qualification is! Some of my colleagues
had a Grad Dip Ed, some a Masters deg. in Ed. and some even a doctorate in Ed.,
bad luck, they all had to do the Cert IV. TAFE just wanted to save themselves
the teacher training I had to undergo, where I received a few hours off per
week to attend lectures at WAIT (now Curtin uni) in the evenings but had to put
the majority of time in myself. There is no more teacher training for TAFE
teachers, I believe it all has been privatised, meaning, you pay your $1,000
for this Cert IV rubbish with a private college to be eligible for TAFE
employment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Great for the bottom line of TAFE. <a
href="http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1260928&p=-1#bottom">http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1260928&p=-1#bottom</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> So much for teaching and learning, pedagogy and all the professional
standards secondary teachers have to constantly work at whilst TAFE doesn't
have to stress about this ... as much ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> This really highlights the difficulties between secondaries and TAFEs
working together. One approaches the challenge from teaching and learning and
the other from the dollars, time, funding, with learning outcomes somewhere
down the bottom of the list.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> I am not having a go at the TAFE teachers caught up in the system,
just the policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Take Care<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Kevork
Krozian<br>
Digital Learning Manager<br>
Forest Hill College</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:k.krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au">k.krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
Tel: 0419 356 034</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Paul Kingston [paul@ringwoodsc.vic.edu.au]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 1 September 2009 9:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kevork Krozian<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Request for copy of your CERT IV in Workplace Assessment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>LOL I have just move 1/2 my office to
Ringwood and there is paperwork everywhere at the moment. I will try and
find it at home if not I hope to find it at Ringwood tomorrow :)<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/09/09 10:17 AM, "Kevork Krozian" <<a
href="UrlBlockedError.aspx" target="_blank">K.Krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
Your Cert IV may be valid. The auditor wants a copy of it to check if it is
current.<br>
Can you by any chance bring it with you on Wednesday so we can fax it for
verification ?<br>
<br>
Take Care<br>
<br>
Kevork Krozian<br>
Digital Learning Manager<br>
Forest Hill College<br>
<a href="UrlBlockedError.aspx" target="_blank">k.krozian@fhc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
Tel: 0419 356 034</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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