<div dir="ltr">Hi Kevork / Roland / all,<div><br></div><div>Yes an excellent idea. I'm concerned about the workload of setting this up, but we could involve the whole community.</div><div><br></div><div>Teachers being employed and discovering they have APC / SD in their teaching load could be onboarded with a mix of face to face and remote / self paced modules. I would think that an initiative like this would be in the interest of VCAA as the quality of teaching will be (potentially) improved - rather than having teachers fail audits.</div><div><br></div><div>Some support from the Education Dept would be nice but is probably unlikely - though you could build in a user pays model (like enrolling in PD).</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br>Adrian</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 1:36 PM Roland Gesthuizen <<a href="mailto:Roland.Gesthuizen@education.vic.gov.au">Roland.Gesthuizen@education.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sounds like a great plan Kevork. :-)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Especially when leaning into an online course to allow us to reach remote and rural candidates. The parent body ACCE noted that the same problem spans across Oz so the market is out there. There is interest in the Tertiary sector for teacher
accreditation for method subjects and they do work with training groups like yours.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">When I wrote and taught the STEM Education unit at Monash Uni, it was a wonderful opportunity for teachers to upskill across Australia. Given our experience with remote and flexible learning, there some interest in what we can do.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you are free, let’s catch up next week for a coffee and see what we can do to
<b>make this so</b> <span style="font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">😊</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards Roland<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 29 Jul 2022, at 11:21 am, Kevork Krozian <<a href="mailto:kkrozian@rt.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kkrozian@rt.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Folks<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">How about we build an online version of this for teachers to upskill ?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps we can get some funding for it from VCAA/Universities/TAFEs/HESG ?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For example check out<span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.education.vic.gov.au/svts/Account/FundedCoursesReportAndStudentTuitionFeeContributionReport" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://www.education.vic.gov.au/svts/Account/FundedCoursesReportAndStudentTuitionFeeContributionReport</span></a>
for the list of courses , funding rates etc that the government pays to TAFEs and private RTOs. I set up and teach 8 courses from that list in my RTO which is part of Ringwood SC.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If it is a funded course it would need to be put on the scope of registration of the RTO and perhaps taught online with some face to face interaction.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">There have been post graduate Certificates and Diplomas in elearning that have been previously funded.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We could offer to do a walk through of the SD course ( and DA and Units 1 and 2 ) with resources and possible offer to demonstrate teaching say the SD course is each of Python, VB and PHP for variety.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">That might take 6 to 12 months to put into place eg define the units to teach, secure VRQA registration, add to the scope of courses for the RTO and with VCAA/Universities/TAFE support address the supply side of teaching the course at the
right level.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We would then need to work on the supply side.<span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">How are we to find more students to study Applied Computing ?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This exercise would not be very useful if we were to train 30 more teachers and schools offered SD every second year to a cohort of 6 in the class.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What do we think ?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kindest Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kevork Krozian<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">IT Pathways Manager<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ringwood Training<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tel 0419 356 034<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014appletemporaryeditingelement"><image001.jpg></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span>sofdev <<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a>><span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf
Of<span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Adrian Janson<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, July 29, 2022 10:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span>Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">sofdev@edulists.com.au</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Software Development position available<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">yes - I agree with all these sentiments BUT.....<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(and side note - you all need to watch Moneyball)!<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don't think we are nailing what the problem is here. Yes absolutely more skilled / trained IT teachers would be great - but the reality is that this is not happening. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Instead - we need to address what we are faced with. Roland - I'm happy to convene a panel at the conference on this?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<br>
Adrian<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 9:54 AM Roland Gesthuizen <<a href="mailto:Roland.Gesthuizen@education.vic.gov.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Roland.Gesthuizen@education.vic.gov.au</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Andrew, there are method subjects that explicitly teaches this at Univeristy (and a friendly shout out to my former PST who are now teaching :-)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">An increasing majority of teachers of Physics and Applied Computing schools are now teaching “out-of-field" and whilst they do a remarkable job, their situation is not going to improve.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Like others, I suspect the dismantling and diminishing of teaching digitech across the middle school years has also been unhelpful. Nothing good ever comes from diminishing or removing teacher agency. It’s hard to beat a skilled method
teacher like you to to command good practice as you have done here with your red pen to underline what teachers should be able to do in order to teach our subject well. I salute your experience.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">There is a prof at Monash Uni who is doing some interesting research in this space and noted some interesting findings. Could be a good keynote or guest speaker at the DLTV VCE conference later this year. (Hmmmm, I might pass this onto
Kev)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards Roland <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 28 Jul 2022, at 7:48 pm, Andrew Shortell <<a href="mailto:shortell@get2me.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">shortell@get2me.net</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All<span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Even though I am busy fading into the sunset this email chain is attractive (in the nicest way)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">When we (YOU) look at up-skilling teachers… <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">•first they need to learn to code <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">•THEN they need to learn to teach coding <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">•AND they need to learn how to debug students’ code<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">each of those is VERY important<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I used to teach ( "facilitate learning experiences in a student centred harmonious learning environment” ) <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">and I am happy to share some of the tasks I used to build student skills<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Most of my ideas centred around : build a core and add to it and then add functionality and then reflect on the interface and the modules<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Most of my things revolved around middle out planning.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Students SEEMED to follow the logic of honing in on core functionality and then planning and creating the bits necessary to achieve those functional requirements <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Real programmers plan everything before they even write an algorithm - students need to learn what programming is before they can program<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It has always been my mantra that people (students) learn best by doing, reflecting (HA HA) and then applying forward.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If a large think tank is convened I am happy to contribute before dementia sets in<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew Shortell<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">( gone, yes, forgotten - most likely)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 28 Jul 2022, at 1:14 pm, Adrian Janson <<a href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">janson.adrian.a@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I 100% support Vic's suggestion here. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Reflecting on the current state of teacher employment, we recently advertised and receive 0 applicants. ZERO. I think academia is doing the best it can, but we need to think about this problem a different way. (I'm tempted to quote Einstein
here, but you all know the quote!!). Looking forward, a BETTER solution would be to look to the teachers we have and work upskilling them to deliver our APC courses. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Phil - perhaps you could convene a think tank around this?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<br>
Adrian<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:58 PM Victoria Farrell <<a href="mailto:farrellv@stkevins.vic.edu.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">farrellv@stkevins.vic.edu.au</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would be keen to run some teacher training courses to upskill staff to teach Software. I am doing this at Parade College while I support their VCE class one day a week.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think that would be a pro-active option for the long term to offer assistance to upskill teaching staff around Victoria. I have plenty of resources I am happy to share too, including a VB coding resource I have written. Coding is the
main hurdle teachers have with teaching SD.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts?<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <img border="0" id="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014_x0000_i1025" src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4z8sI9MYMFjbXtzxdKhgpK4dCGcMzYQJo2eZHOb4IvYvWlyt1G3gTS3fQpX8T5d71cGcqqyMjM"></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Victoria Farrell</span></i></b><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><br>
Head of Technology Department </span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">St Kevin's College</span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><br>
<i>P 03 9832 4980</i></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:rgb(39,78,19)">E<span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:farrellv@stkevins.vic.edu.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">farrellv@stkevins.vic.edu.au</span></a></span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif;color:rgb(39,78,19)"><a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vicfarrell.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Croland.gesthuizen%40education.vic.gov.au%7C4bab9d6b04bf477a7d6308da7100a7f6%7Cd96cb3371a8744cfb69b3cec334a4c1f%7C0%7C0%7C637946544941200001%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0jp%2F2a1hioosBphzoFyk4XRj6XaPw7DhKurY3VecNhY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">vicfarrell.com.au</span></a></span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif;color:rgb(39,78,19)"><a href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.skc3.club%2F&data=05%7C01%7Croland.gesthuizen%40education.vic.gov.au%7C4bab9d6b04bf477a7d6308da7100a7f6%7Cd96cb3371a8744cfb69b3cec334a4c1f%7C0%7C0%7C637946544941200001%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VyfRqr4Ul7boQ5scsvHubLA4SkdJKdizXOGKUCI73Ac%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Computer
Club</span></a></span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 at 12:29, Philip Feain <<a href="mailto:Philip.Feain@education.vic.gov.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Philip.Feain@education.vic.gov.au</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear All<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry about the cross-list posting here.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have been asked by a major school (not far from the city and bay) if there are any Software Development teachers who would be available to cover their class after their teaching has become unavailable.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This would be for the rest of the year.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">They are happy to discuss how this could be done understanding that teachers would be full-time in their current school.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If you are interested and think you could be able to help them out please let me know via my work email or phone. Don’t reply through the lists.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kind Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Phil.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)">Phil Feain | Curriculum Manager, Digital Technologies</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blue">Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)">Level 32, Casselden</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)">2 Lonsdale Street</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)">Melbourne VIC 3000</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)">T: 03 9059 5146 | 0428 329 759</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)">E</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">:<span class="gmail-m_-1452662586059193014apple-converted-space"> </span></span><u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="mailto:Philip.Feain@education.vic.gov.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Philip.Feain@education.vic.gov.au</span></a></span></u><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(64,64,64)"><image001.jpg></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)">The Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority provides high quality curriculum, assessment and reporting that promotes individual lifelong learning.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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