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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Wow, it sounds like the study design is not language-independent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-Alkira Secondary College.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">:P<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Selina Dennis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 March 2016 4:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List' <sofdev@edulists.com.au><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My perspective on this dot-point is that the use of ‘array’ is a starting point, with the programming language shaping where that point
‘ends’. For example, I use Python in the classroom, yet I have no intention of having students use the array module that limits the data inside their lists to a single data type beyond creating a small programming exercise to demonstrate its use. I will, however,
discuss with them the difference between Python’s default implementation of lists and the ‘computer science’ definition of an array, as well as why using ‘array’ in the traditional sense isn’t terribly common if coding in Python.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I see it as a good opportunity to discuss the pros and cons of Python’s implementation and what this means for a programmer. As a comparison,
I’ll discuss the C/C++/etc implementation of array with the fixed size limitation. It’s possible to create dynamically sized arrays in these languages, it’s just not elegant – you need to malloc the memory to the size of the initial array, and then realloc
that memory every time you wish to resize it – useful if you want full control, and a pain in the butt if you don’t care about memory management. It’s good for them to know this, because it gives them a better understanding as to why people produce “new programming
languages” as well – I would guess that some of the main contributors of Python really disliked needing to mess around so directly with memory management, which is why Python has that kind of memory management built in by default.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">To me, it doesn’t make sense to limit students to stick to only the programming concepts that are covered in the Study Design, and
in fact, it’s not possible for me to do that using Python anyway. For example, Python doesn’t have native support for “records” as a data structure, but it does have classes and dictionaries (including ordered dictionaries), which do the job just as well.
I could teach them about SimpleNamespace or mutable namedtuples, both of which allow them to mimic what a record does, but this will confuse them unnecessarily and there’s no real benefit for them implementing their Python code in this way. Instead, I plan
to teach them about records as part of their theoretical knowledge of programming in the same way that I’m teaching them about the difference between a function, subroutine and method.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Just my thoughts, hope that helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Selina Dennis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Strathmore Secondary College<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">(03) 9379 7999<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Baas, Benjamin B<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 March 2016 3:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au">sofdev@edulists.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Message is pretty clear stick to the Study Design.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><rant><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I feel like I’m teaching my students poor programming practices by sticking to the SD, all my students that have come up with ideas
for the SAT don’t know how much data their program will store at run time in these cases a dynamic data collection, like a list, would be the best option compare to an array which in VB and C# has a fixed size. Yes they can create a really large array, but
then they are creating a program with built in security vulnerabilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Also isn’t the point of the SAT is so the students can show us what they are capable of doing, if we limit them to only concepts covered
in the SD then we limit what they can show us on the SAT and if that’s the case what is the point of the SAT if we have to teach to the exam.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Also why can’t students still get marks on the exams, if they show a better way of doing things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></rant><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D">Benjamin Baas<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="32" height="27" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D17897.06150250" alt="Description: cid:image001.png@01C9CA67.50F474D0"></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#948A54;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Alkira
Secondary College</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">+</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">
<b>Nurture Ave, Cranbourne North | PO Box 4314, Narre Warren South 3805</b></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Wingdings 2";color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">'</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">
</span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> +61 3 5991 3500
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</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">8<b>
</b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href="http://www.alkirasecondarycollege.com.au/"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#548DD4">www.alkirasecondarycollege.com.au</span></b></a></span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#404040;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Alkira Secondary College believes in
</span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Personalised</span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#404040;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> learning for
all, and </span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Respect</span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#404040;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> for the
individual<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paragreen, Chris J<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 March 2016 2:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au">sofdev@edulists.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The key knowledge for U4O1 includes: “</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeueLT-Light">uses of data structures
to organise and manipulate data, including associative arrays (or dictionaries or hash tables)”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeueLT-Light"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeueLT-Light">I think that could rule lists in …? Otherwise I would agree with the KISS principle.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeueLT-Light"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeueLT-Light">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Guy Flaherty<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 March 2016 1:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au">sofdev@edulists.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Python does have an array type which is similar to what other languages define as an array. It limits the array to a specific type. It may be useable, especially
to contrast with a ‘list’ in python to help students understand the pythonic way of doing things!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="https://docs.python.org/2/library/array.html">https://docs.python.org/2/library/array.html</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">You can use it like the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>>>from array import array<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>>>a = array(‘I’,[1,2,3,4])<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>>>a[1]<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">2<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>>>a.append(‘a’)<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Traceback (most recent call last):<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:4.5pt"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">File “<stdin>”, line 1, in <module><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">TypeError: an integer is required (got type str)<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The ‘I’ is the typecode which forces the array to be restricted to the type this typecode represents (int’s in this case). It might be useful if you are using
python and need to explain/demo arrays.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Guy Flaherty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Croke, Daryl D<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 March 2016 12:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au">sofdev@edulists.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Hi all
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Python doesn't do arrays as such, but you can make list within list and make them function like an array, so surely that's the point. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">see:
<a href="http://www.i-programmer.info/programming/python/3942-arrays-in-python.html" target="_blank">
http://www.i-programmer.info/programming/python/3942-arrays-in-python.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">What are we trying to achieve? What code do we require to achieve that? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Even though we can have mixed data type lists in Python it would be best to avoid that. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers<br>
<br>
Daryl Croke<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
Mount Ridley College<br>
8338 3600<br>
<a href="http://mountridleycollege.vic.edu.au/">http://mountridleycollege.vic.edu.au/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">keep on coding</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://geekstuff.global2.vic.edu.au/">http://geekstuff.global2.vic.edu.au/</a><br>
<a href="http://physicalcomputing.global2.vic.edu.au/">http://physicalcomputing.global2.vic.edu.au/</a></span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
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<div id="divRpF936900">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] on behalf of Laurie Savage [08327998@pvgc.vic.edu.au]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 March 2016 11:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I'm no expert here so I'm very happy to be corrected but this poses a problem with PHP and Python where arrays and lists are interchangeable. In PHP and Python arrays can contain elements of different types: e.g.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">$fred = array("Fred", "Smith", 40, 78.50) so $fred[2] + $fred[3] = 118.5 but $fred[0] + $fred[1] should throw an error in PHP, not in Python.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">$fred = array("FName"=>"Fred", SName"=>"Smith", "Age"=>40, "Weight"=> 78.5)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I seem to remember having this discussion with Kevork back in 2010!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Laurie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Laurie Savage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">IT Teacher/Assessment and Reporting Coordinator<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Pascoe Vale Girls College<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On 7 Mar 2016, at 11:09 AM, Chris Bucknell <<a href="mailto:Chris.Bucknell@haileybury.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">Chris.Bucknell@haileybury.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi All,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Like Damien I don’t encourage my students to use List and Dictionaries because in they tend to confuse them and arrays when it comes to exams. So I find it simpler
to avoid them and get the students to understand what’s on the study design and what they’ll be assessed on.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#80004D">Chris Bucknell</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#515964">Head of CDT; Coord, Internal Exam; House Tutor</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#515964">+61 3 9904 6360</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:%7bemail%7d" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt">Chris.Bucknell@haileybury.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.haileybury.vic.edu.au/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt">www.haileybury.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:#954F72">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank"><span style="color:#954F72">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>ATKINSON-BUCK, Damien<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, 7 March 2016 10:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Ben,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> Personally steer away from Lists and Dictionaries, even though they’re technically easier to use (and in at least the case of dictionaries, sometimes
faster) purely because I don’t want to add any extra confusion for the students. When it comes to exams, they are likely to be asked questions about arrays. If they put in an example in list format, an exam assessor may not get that and give them zero…. Especially
if you look at RemoveAt() and other list shortcuts.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">That’s just my overly cautious approach, quite possibly I’m underselling the students ability to discriminate the best time to use it.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Damien</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#82002C">Damien Atkinson-Buck</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#766A65">Head of Learning Area: Technology/Arts</span><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.ivanhoe.com.au/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;text-decoration:none"><image002.jpg></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#766A65">The Ridgeway, Ivanhoe VIC 3079 Australia</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#82002C">p.</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#766A65">+61
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#82002C">e.</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:damien.atkinson-buck@ivanhoe.com.au" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#954F72">damien.atkinson-buck@ivanhoe.com.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Baas,
Benjamin B [</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:baas.benjamin.b@edumail.vic.gov.au" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#954F72">mailto:baas.benjamin.b@edumail.vic.gov.au</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, 7 March 2016 9:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[Year 12 SofDev] Should I teach lists?</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">I’m contemplating whether on not I should teach my students about Lists in C# and VB as they will be of more use to them then Arrays when doing their SAT (List
are dynamic and have more functionality). I just wanted to know what peoples thoughts are on this and if they go beyond the data collections mentioned in the study design. The SD just mentions Arrays and Records.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Ben.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D">Benjamin Baas</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><image005.png></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#948A54"> </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D">Alkira
Secondary College</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#17365D">+</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Nurture Ave,
Cranbourne North | PO Box 4314, Narre Warren South 3805</b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Wingdings 2";color:#17365D">'</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#17365D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D"> +61
3 5991 3500 <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Wingdings 2";color:#17365D">6</span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#17365D"> </span></span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#17365D">+61
3 5991 3599 <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">8</span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.alkirasecondarycollege.com.au/" target="_blank"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#548DD4">www.alkirasecondarycollege.com.au</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#404040">Alkira Secondary College believes in<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">Personalised</span></i><span class="apple-converted-space"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#404040"> </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#404040">learning
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