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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Damien and Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> I do have to correct my post below. The data bus determines the size of the data retrieved from memory.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>For example, when 16 bits of data are retrieved as the word size of that machine it is a 16 bit data bus. The address bus determines the number of memory locations that can be accessed, not the contents of each access. So, an address bus width of 32 bits means </span>2<sup>32 </sup><span style='color:#1F497D'>different addresses that can be accessed which equates to 4GB of memory. Memory beyond that is not useful as it can’t be accessed. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My post again with the corrections:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think the answers have to do with the width of the <b><i>data</i></b> bus of the architecture of the machine, see <a href="https://exchange.ringwoodsc.vic.edu.au/owa/redir.aspx?C=1b8b4b8b57b54fa88a08a1f1843d954e&URL=http%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fAddress_bus" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_bus</a> . So an 8 bit <b><i>data</i></b> bus uses a word size of 8 bits, 16 uses a 16 bit word etc. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The width of the address bus ( number of wires/bits ) determines the size of the addressable <b><i>location of </i></b>a unit of memory, see <a href="https://exchange.ringwoodsc.vic.edu.au/owa/redir.aspx?C=1b8b4b8b57b54fa88a08a1f1843d954e&URL=http%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fWord_(data_type)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_(data_type)</a> . Therefore, while it may be possible to represent a character with 8 bits depending on the encoding used ( ASCII, EBCDIC) , the overriding factor is the CPU architecture that determines the <b><i>accessible</i></b> memory size, hence 8, 16, 32 and 64 bit word sizes would use different storage sizes for the same amount of data as either a single word size or multiples of the basic word size.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>As the references quoted here indicate, while there are exceptions ( why keep things simple ??? ) , the general outline is the underlying principle of units of memory used for storage of data and different data types. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Kind Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Kevork Krozian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Edulists Creator Administrator<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>www.edulists.com.au<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>tel: 0419 356 034<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ATKINSON-BUCK, Damien<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 3 June 2013 12:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Data Type Sizes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Robert & Kevork,</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Very much appreciated!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Damien</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Atkinson-Buck</span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Head of Learning Area: Technology/Arts</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><img border=0 width=750 height=2 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01CE608A.7EA6B150"></span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=135 height=66 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.png@01CE608A.7EA6B150"></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>p:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> +61 3 9490 3848 </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>e:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><a href="mailto:damien.atkinson-buck@ivanhoe.com.au"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>damien.atkinson-buck@ivanhoe.com.au</span></a><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>f:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> +61 3 9490 3490</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>w:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><a href="http://www.ivanhoe.com.au/"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.ivanhoe.com.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kevork Krozian [<a href="mailto:kevork@edulists.com.au">mailto:kevork@edulists.com.au</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 31 May 2013 10:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Data Type Sizes</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Folks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Interesting discussion Damien and Robert.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think the answers have to do with the width of the address bus of the architecture of the machine, see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_bus">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_bus</a> .</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The width of the address bus ( number of wires/bits ) determines the size of the addressable unit of memory, retrieved or stored, known as the <b><i>word</i></b> size, see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_(data_type)">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_(data_type)</a> . So an 8 bit address bus uses a word size of 8 bits, 16 uses a 16 bit word etc. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Therefore, while it may be possible to represent a character with 8 bits depending on the encoding used ( ASCII, EBCDIC) , the overriding factor is the CPU architecture that determines the addressable memory size, hence 8, 16, 32 and 64 bit word sizes would use different storage sizes for the same amount of data as either a single word size or multiples of the basic word size.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>As the references quoted here indicate, while there are exceptions ( why keep things simple ??? ) , the general outline is the underlying principle of units of memory used for storage of data and different data types. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>As for the Study Design purpose I don’t think the physical size of memory in the implementation is what is described, rather the number of characters used for each data item. Eg. postcode is 4 characters, name is 15 characters, state is 3 characters , age is an integer etc. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Happy to hear any other views.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Kevork Krozian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Edulists Creator Administrator</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.edulists.com.au">www.edulists.com.au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>tel: 0419 356 034</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Timmer-Arends<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 31 May 2013 8:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Data Type Sizes</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hello Damien</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>First, I'm not sure that how the various data types are physically stored is part of the study design - at least, I can't see it anywhere.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Second, one reason for the different storage sizes is probably historical as much as anything. For example, C was developed on PDP-11 which was a 16-bit minicomputer, so 2 bytes as basic int storage makes sense. C++, coming along later as it did, was probably first developed on a 32-bit machine. I wouldn't be surprised if VB.NETs owes its 2-byte integers to its ancestor quickBASIC, originally written for 8088/86 machines.The other number types would have a similar heritage.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As for char, 1 byte accomodates ASCII, while 2 bytes accomodates Unicode. I don't know why, but MS was one of the early adopters of Unicode, possibly because of its flagship product MS Word, so building chars on 2 bytes would have been a logical step for them.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The boolean data type is the interesting one. In principle it only needs one bit, but fetching a single bit from memory can be very inefficient, depending on how the memory system is designed. That leads to 1 byte storage on older machines since it's more efficient to store a byte than a bit (0000 0000 or 1111 1111), although I'm not sure how that translates to 32-bit machines!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Robert T-A</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>----- Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:Damien.ATKINSON-BUCK@ivanhoe.com.au" title="Damien.ATKINSON-BUCK@ivanhoe.com.au">ATKINSON-BUCK, Damien</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au)" title="sofdev@edulists.com.au">Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List(sofdev@edulists.com.au)</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Friday, May 31, 2013 3:42 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> [Year 12 SofDev] Data Type Sizes</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi folks, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> I’ve been working through various data dictionaries with my students and the issue of data type sizes, somebody pointed out a difference between the text and what VB.NET state, so I decided to do a bit of research into various languages and see what they store data as. Attached are the results. It’s OK for SACs as we can base that on the language we’re using, but just wondering what the official VCAA size might be – and if anyone can explain the reasons for the difference (I assume it’s due to various compilation methods, but the brain is too fried to go into too much). Also, anyone out there using the languages that I have blank fields on that could fill them in?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Cheers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Damien</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#880231'><br></span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#82002C'>Damien</span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#880231'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#880231'>Atkinson-Buck</span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Head of Learning Area: Technology/Arts</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:.75pt 36.0pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>p:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> +61 3 9490 3848</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt 36.0pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>e:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:damien.atkinson-buck@ivanhoe.com.au">damien.atkinson-buck@ivanhoe.com.au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>f:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> +61 3 9490 3490</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>w:</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="http://www.ivanhoe.com.au"><span style='color:black'>www.ivanhoe.com.au</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><img border=0 width=750 height=105 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image003.jpg@01CE608A.7EA6B150"><br></span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br><br><br><br>Privacy, Virus and Copyright Warning<br><br>The information contained in this electronic message (e-mail), and any files transmitted with it:<br><br>* is intended for the named recipients only. 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If you have received this in error, please advise the sender and delete it and any copies immediately;<br>* Any personal information in this email must be used in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 and this always applies even if it has been sent to you in error.<br>* represents the views of the sender and does not necessarily represent the views or formal advice of Ivanhoe Grammar School;<br>* may be subject to Copyright, so no further use should be made of it without the author's permission.<br><br>The School does not represent or warrant that the email or any files attached do not contain errors or are free from computer viruses or other defects nor does it accept responsibility for any loss or damage resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the email or any attached files. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>