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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I am with James on this with the DFD Entity question (and I did them at Uni too).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The system does not know or care what an entity is called as long as the data comes in from it - your label will not matter but you cannot have both entities as only one provides the data. "Order Entry Entity"
- lol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The data flow arrows labels do really matter as they represent the data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">David Dawson<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vella, James<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 25 February 2013 10:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> sofdev@edulists.com.au<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFDs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Strictly speaking as someone who did DFDs at uni…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">As Mark has said, we sometimes think in a human sense however DFDs don’t allow us to see the interactions between two EEs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">As Selina has said, the waiter is just the input method – so we can leave it out. I think our students sometimes find it hard at this stage where they have to decide what should and shouldn’t be included in our DFDs.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">In terms of the DFD, you could argue either way for one or the other….but NOT BOTH!
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">That being said, in the UCD you can list both as actors because they both have roles in the system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I have a whole text book on this stuff from my 2<sup>nd</sup> year at LaTrobe which I’m using with my kids at the moment…DFDs, UCDs, UML the whole kit and caboodle!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Mr James Vella<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">MacKillop College<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of sofdev-request@edulists.com.au<br>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:31 AM<br>
To: sofdev@edulists.com.au<br>
Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 95, Issue 36<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Send sofdev mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> 1. Re: DFD question (Kent Beveridge)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> 2. Re: DFD question (Mark)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> 3. Re: DFD question (Selina Dennis)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Message: 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 21:57:28 +0000<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">From: Kent Beveridge <<a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">sofdev@edulists.com.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <<a href="mailto:64FBC7D59E9D6B4DA547B82B7F07665C739FB287@garlic.stbc.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">64FBC7D59E9D6B4DA547B82B7F07665C739FB287@garlic.stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Data flow to my understanding here..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Waiter to Customer ....Request for order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Customer to Waiter ....Food/Beverage order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Waiter and Customer both 'entities' send data back to the central part of the 'system' (restuarant system) via the waiter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Yep actors are waiter and customer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I havent started UCD stuff with my guys just yet..focussing on DFD's ...ucd next.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Kent Beveridge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">ICT Coordinator & Maths Teacher<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au%3cmailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">From: <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">
<span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a> [sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] on behalf of Mark [mark@vceit.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Sent: Saturday, 23 February 2013 7:15 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I had the same issue with the DFD and UCD for one of the programming outcomes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The restaurant customer would be an obvious actor/external entity in a system that takes meal orders.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">However since the waiter is the one interacting with the system, and the customer is interacting with the waiter, the customer does not appear at all in the system representation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Sometimes what seems logical is not as it first appears.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">On 22 February 2013 13:14, Simone Tynan <<a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au%3cmailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au<mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</span></a>>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I am having trouble with aspects of a DFD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I have a DFD and context diagram in which shows a customer orders a service and it is quoted and carried out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Similar scenario, except the service is being carried out for a beneficiary. (Think Ninja and assassins. ;-) )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The Customer is providing all details and payments. The beneficiary is not actually adding to or receiving from the system (that I can see).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Are they still added as an external entity? Is there any connection between them and the system?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Many thanks for any input/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Simone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Simone Tynan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">eLearning Leader<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">LOTE Leader P-12<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au%3cmailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au<mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Message: 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:06:18 +1100<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">From: Mark <<a href="mailto:mark@vceit.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:
none">mark@vceit.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">sofdev@edulists.com.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <<a href="mailto:CACu=8Z0nWiAPpAFwtphqpdcGrduX+SbCYsErXimTjr9zZhX8OA@mail.gmail.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">CACu=8Z0nWiAPpAFwtphqpdcGrduX+SbCYsErXimTjr9zZhX8OA@mail.gmail.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hi all. It's an interesting situation. This is my take on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">We all probably start by seeing it from a human point of view: the customer is dealing with the waiter, who deals with the system. So the customer is an integral part of the transaction and therefore appear in a DFD
or UCD...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">But the waiter is not a part of the system: he/she interacts with it as an external entity (EE).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">So where does the customer fit in? An EE to the EE waiter? An EE once removed? We don't do that in DFD or UCD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>From the system's point of view, the waiter is an EE. The customer is a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">fictional character that the system does not see, hear, or believe in. Only the waiter exists to the system. Everyone else is Santa Claus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">We could complicate it further and imagine that a child is giving her meal choice to her mother who gives it to the waiter... should the child be in the DFD/UCD now as an EE twice removed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">If a waiter were ordering his own lunch from the kitchen, would he be represented again in the diagram - this time as a customerless EE?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">As I read it, the customer is not directly interacting with the system; the waiter is. So the waiter appears as an EE.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">So I would not include the customer at all in a DFD or UCD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Anyone out there who did DFD/UCD at uni?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">On 25 February 2013 08:57, Kent Beveridge <<a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a>>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> Data flow to my understanding here..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> Waiter to Customer ....Request for order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> Customer to Waiter ....Food/Beverage order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> Waiter and Customer both 'entities' send data back to the central part
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> of the 'system' (restuarant system) via the waiter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> Yep actors are waiter and customer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> I havent started UCD stuff with my guys just yet..focussing on DFD's
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> ...ucd next.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> *Kent Beveridge*<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> ICT Coordinator & Maths Teacher<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au">
<span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> *From:* <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">
<span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> [sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] on behalf of Mark [mark@vceit.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> *Sent:* Saturday, 23 February 2013 7:15 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> I had the same issue with the DFD and UCD for one of the programming
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> outcomes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> The restaurant customer would be an obvious actor/external entity in a
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> system that takes meal orders.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> However since the waiter is the one interacting with the system, and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> the customer is interacting with the waiter, the customer does not
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> appear at all in the system representation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> Sometimes what seems logical is not as it first appears.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> On 22 February 2013 13:14, Simone Tynan <<a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:
windowtext;text-decoration:none">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</span></a>>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> I am having trouble with aspects of a DFD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> I have a DFD and context diagram in which shows a customer orders a
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> service and it is quoted and carried out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> Similar scenario, except the service is being carried out for a
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> beneficiary. (Think Ninja and assassins. ;-) )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> The Customer is providing all details and payments. The beneficiary
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> is not actually adding to or receiving from the system (that I can see).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> Are they still added as an external entity? Is there any connection
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> between them and the system?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> Many thanks for any input/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> Simone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> ************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> Simone Tynan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> eLearning Leader<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> LOTE Leader P-12<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au">
<span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>> --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> mark AT vceit DOT com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <a href="http://vceit.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://vceit.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> *St. Brigid's College *<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> 97 Robinson Street, Horsham VIC 3400<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> T 03 5382 3545 F 03 5382 0757<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> ABN 72 749 438 155<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <a href="http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">www.stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">mark AT vceit DOT com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://vceit.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://vceit.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Message: 3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:30:44 +1100<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">From: "Selina Dennis" <<a href="mailto:selina@dennis.net.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:
none">selina@dennis.net.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <<a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">sofdev@edulists.com.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:002d01ce12e6$f902a040$eb07e0c0$@dennis.net.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">002d01ce12e6$f902a040$eb07e0c0$@dennis.net.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I'd disagree with your argument in regards to the Customer not playing a role in interacting with the system. To me, the waiter is simply the input method - much like a keyboard - and the information is coming from
the customer. So in a DFD/UCD scenario, I wouldn't include the waiter in the process of ordering food - that would come from the customer. However, if the waiter had some other interaction with the system, such as collecting tips at the end of the day, then
they would become more than simply the input method, and thus would be shown.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hope that makes sense! Just my take on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Selina Dennis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Strathmore Secondary College<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">From: <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">
<span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">On Behalf Of Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013 10:06 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hi all. It's an interesting situation. This is my take on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">We all probably start by seeing it from a human point of view: the customer is dealing with the waiter, who deals with the system. So the customer is an integral part of the transaction and therefore appear in a DFD
or UCD...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">But the waiter is not a part of the system: he/she interacts with it as an external entity (EE).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">So where does the customer fit in? An EE to the EE waiter? An EE once removed? We don't do that in DFD or UCD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">>From the system's point of view, the waiter is an EE. The customer is a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">fictional character that the system does not see, hear, or believe in. Only the waiter exists to the system. Everyone else is Santa Claus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">We could complicate it further and imagine that a child is giving her meal choice to her mother who gives it to the waiter... should the child be in the DFD/UCD now as an EE twice removed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">If a waiter were ordering his own lunch from the kitchen, would he be represented again in the diagram - this time as a customerless EE?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">As I read it, the customer is not directly interacting with the system; the waiter is. So the waiter appears as an EE.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">So I would not include the customer at all in a DFD or UCD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Anyone out there who did DFD/UCD at uni?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">On 25 February 2013 08:57, Kent Beveridge <<a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Data flow to my understanding here..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Waiter to Customer ....Request for order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Customer to Waiter ....Food/Beverage order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Waiter and Customer both 'entities' send data back to the central part of the 'system' (restuarant system) via the waiter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Yep actors are waiter and customer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I havent started UCD stuff with my guys just yet..focussing on DFD's ...ucd next.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Kent Beveridge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">ICT Coordinator & Maths Teacher<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> _____ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">From: <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">
<span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</span></a> [sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] on behalf of Mark [mark@vceit.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Sent: Saturday, 23 February 2013 7:15 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I had the same issue with the DFD and UCD for one of the programming outcomes.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The restaurant customer would be an obvious actor/external entity in a system that takes meal orders.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">However since the waiter is the one interacting with the system, and the customer is interacting with the waiter, the customer does not appear at all in the system representation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Sometimes what seems logical is not as it first appears.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">On 22 February 2013 13:14, Simone Tynan <<a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hi all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I am having trouble with aspects of a DFD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">I have a DFD and context diagram in which shows a customer orders a service and it is quoted and carried out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Similar scenario, except the service is being carried out for a beneficiary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">(Think Ninja and assassins. ;-) )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The Customer is providing all details and payments. The beneficiary is not actually adding to or receiving from the system (that I can see).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Are they still added as an external entity? Is there any connection between them and the system?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Many thanks for any input/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Simone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Simone Tynan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">eLearning Leader<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">LOTE Leader P-12<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">mark AT vceit DOT com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://vceit.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://vceit.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">St. Brigid's College <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">97 Robinson Street, Horsham VIC 3400 <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">T 03 5382 3545 F 03 5382 0757 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">ABN 72 749 438 155 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">www.stbc.vic.edu.au</span></a> <<a href="http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au/"><span style="color:windowtext;
text-decoration:none">http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au/</span></a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">mark AT vceit DOT com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://vceit.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://vceit.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">End of sofdev Digest, Vol 95, Issue 36<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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