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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’d disagree with your argument in regards to the Customer not playing a role in interacting with the system. To me, the waiter is simply the input method – much like a keyboard – and the information is coming from the customer. So in a DFD/UCD scenario, I wouldn’t include the waiter in the process of ordering food – that would come from the customer. However, if the waiter had some other interaction with the system, such as collecting tips at the end of the day, then they would become more than simply the input method, and thus would be shown.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hope that makes sense! Just my take on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Selina Dennis<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Strathmore Secondary College<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 25 February 2013 10:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi all. It's an interesting situation. This is my take on it.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>We all probably start by seeing it from a human point of view: the customer is dealing with the waiter, who deals with the system. So the customer is an integral part of the transaction and therefore appear in a DFD or UCD...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But the waiter is not a part of the system: he/she interacts with it as an external entity (EE).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So where does the customer fit in? An EE to the EE waiter? An EE once removed? We don't do that in DFD or UCD.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>From the system's point of view, the waiter is an EE. The customer is a fictional character that the system does not see, hear, or believe in. Only the waiter exists to the system. Everyone else is Santa Claus.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We could complicate it further and imagine that a child is giving her meal choice to her mother who gives it to the waiter... should the child be in the DFD/UCD now as an EE twice removed?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If a waiter were ordering his own lunch from the kitchen, would he be represented again in the diagram - this time as a customerless EE?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As I read it, the customer is not directly interacting with the system; the waiter is. So the waiter appears as an EE.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>So I would not include the customer at all in a DFD or UCD.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Anyone out there who did DFD/UCD at uni?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 25 February 2013 08:57, Kent Beveridge <<a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Data flow to my understanding here..<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Waiter to Customer ....Request for order<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Customer to Waiter ....Food/Beverage order<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Waiter and Customer both 'entities' send data back to the central part of the 'system' (restuarant system) via the waiter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Yep actors are waiter and customer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>I havent started UCD stuff with my guys just yet..focussing on DFD's ...ucd next.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Poor Richard","serif";color:blue'>Kent Beveridge</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#3366FF'>ICT Coordinator & Maths Teacher</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#3366FF'><a href="mailto:kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au</a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] on behalf of Mark [<a href="mailto:mark@vceit.com" target="_blank">mark@vceit.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 23 February 2013 7:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFD question</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I had the same issue with the DFD and UCD for one of the programming outcomes. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>The restaurant customer would be an obvious actor/external entity in a system that takes meal orders.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>However since the waiter is the one interacting with the system, and the customer is interacting with the waiter, the customer does not appear at all in the system representation.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sometimes what seems logical is not as it first appears.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 22 February 2013 13:14, Simone Tynan <<a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi all, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am having trouble with aspects of a DFD.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have a DFD and context diagram in which shows a customer orders a service and it is quoted and carried out.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Similar scenario, except the service is being carried out for a beneficiary. (Think Ninja and assassins. ;-) )<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The Customer is providing all details and payments. The beneficiary is not actually adding to or receiving from the system (that I can see).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Are they still added as an external entity? Is there any connection between them and the system?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Many thanks for any input/<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Simone<br><br>************************************<span style='color:#888888'><br>Simone Tynan<br>eLearning Leader<br>LOTE Leader P-12<br><a href="mailto:Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">Simone.Tynan@shcy.vic.edu.au</a><br><br></span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>mark AT vceit DOT com<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p align=center style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width=625 style='width:468.75pt'><tr><td width=507 style='width:380.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>St. Brigid's College </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>97 Robinson Street, Horsham VIC 3400 </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>T 03 5382 3545 F 03 5382 0757 </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>ABN 72 749 438 155 </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a href="http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au/" target="_blank">www.stbc.vic.edu.au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=102 rowspan=2 style='width:76.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>--<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>mark AT vceit DOT com<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>