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<DIV>How is this issue dealt with by the textbook writers for SD 2011?</DIV>
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<DIV>Maggie</DIV>
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<DIV><STRONG>Margaret Iaquinto</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>Information Technology Coordinator</DIV>
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<DIV>St Leonard's College</DIV>
<DIV>Brighton Campus</DIV>
<DIV>t (+61 3) 9909 9300</DIV>
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<DIV>x 529</DIV>
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<DIV><A href="http://www.stleonards.vic.edu.au/">www.stleonards.vicedu.au</A></DIV>
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<DIV>Alternate email: <A href="mailto:maggie@iaquinto.net">maggie@iaquinto.net</A></DIV><BR><BR>>>> Laurie Savage <savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au> 19/08/2010 8:43 AM >>><BR>Hmm, messy but I don't see any other way. So we teach the kids that this is<BR>a "fact" or definition which does not apply to half of the languages being<BR>used. Maybe we should be teaching them to prepare COBOL programs on punched<BR>cards too.<BR><BR>Laurie<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]<BR>On Behalf Of Guy Flaherty<BR>Sent: Thursday, 19 August 2010 8:41 AM<BR>To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'<BR>Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Records and Arrays<BR><BR>After a quick bit of research, the following approved languages do not<BR>follow the 'definition' of an array as stated on page 161 of the Fitzpatrick<BR>& Keane text:<BR><BR>Objective C<BR>Python<BR>Perl<BR>Ruby<BR>PHP<BR>Visual Fox Pro<BR><BR>The other six language do. According to the definitions, the above languages<BR>do not have an 'array' type but are indeed following the definition for a<BR>'record'. Despite the fact that for each of these languages the structures<BR>are described and explained as 'arrays' in their documentation and not<BR>referred to as 'record' types.<BR><BR>It would seem that Adrian's point of these definitions being used in the<BR>study design is important, and must be considered a requirement of the<BR>course. Equally, if you teach one of the languages above, your students are<BR>not going to understand this well without specific help, in my opinion, as<BR>this will not be their experience in practice.<BR><BR>The simple answer is that any language type that allows for multiple items<BR>to be referred to as part of a single variable, when the items are required<BR>to be of the same type you have an 'array' and when the items are allowed to<BR>be of differing types you have a 'record'. According to the study design but<BR>purely language dependent in real life.<BR><BR>Guy Flaherty<BR>Xavier College<BR><BR>>>> "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au> 18/08/10 05:58 PM<BR>>>> <BR>Hi Guy and all,<BR><BR><BR><BR>The definition of array and record are as you stated and I would have<BR>thought that this was a common thing to all languages - but I am not<BR>familiar with PHP at all - and was surprised to see that you could mix data<BR>types in an array! It is important to remember that it is in the study<BR>design (and the next one to) and so is fair game for the examiners (even<BR>though as you said - it would be possibly a controversial topic given the<BR>way PHP treats arrays and records....)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Adrian<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Adrian Janson B.Sc, Dip.Ed, M.Ed<BR>Director of ICT<BR>Melbourne High School, Forrest Hill, South Yarra, Victoria 3141 Australia.<BR>Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711<BR>Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767<BR>E-mail: janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au<BR><BR>Website: <<A href="http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/">http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/</A>> <A href="http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au">http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au</A><BR><BR>Blog: <<A href="http://jansona.edublogs.org/">http://jansona.edublogs.org/</A>> <A href="http://jansona.edublogs.org">http://jansona.edublogs.org</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.comau [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]<BR>On Behalf Of Guy Flaherty<BR>Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2010 2:58 PM<BR>To: sofdev@edulistscom.au<BR>Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Records and Arrays<BR><BR><BR><BR>Laurie,<BR><BR><BR><BR>I initially thought exactly as you stated when I looked at the reference in<BR>the book. So I did a quick search and in languages like c and pascal arrays<BR>must be of the same data type and records(pascal)/struct(c) can have<BR>different data types for items, as explained in the text.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Being a python using person myself, I am not used to this, as arrays can<BR>have any type of data in them, and there really isn't a 'record' type in<BR>python that I am aware of. I think php is similar.<BR><BR><BR><BR>It would seem that this kind of structure is language dependent, and so not<BR>the best for an exam question, in my opinion.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Guy Flaherty<BR><BR>Xavier College <BR><BR><BR><BR>>>> "Laurie Savage" <savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au> 18/08/10 01:57 PM >>><BR><BR><BR>I have a problem. In Fitzpatrick and Keane p. 161 (and in the 2007 exam)<BR><BR>arrays and records are primarily differentiated by data type. So the text<BR><BR>says: "An array is an indexed collection of elements of the same type of<BR><BR>data"; "A ... record represents a group of different data elements".<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>But, in PHP, this works:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><?php <BR><BR><BR><BR>$pizzaToppings = array('onion', 'tomato', 'cheese', 'anchovies', 'ham',<BR><BR>'pepperoni', 1.6, 200); <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>echo "<h1>We like $pizzaToppings[5] PIZZA!</h1>";<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>$num = $pizzaToppings[6] * $pizzaToppings[7];<BR><BR><BR><BR>echo $num;<BR><BR><BR><BR>?><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>i.e. the array is storing data of different types and not storing the<BR><BR>numeric data as a string. What am I missing here? I've done a search, but<BR><BR>these are the only references I've seen that define this as the main<BR><BR>difference. I've been labouring under the delusion that an array lives in<BR><BR>volatile memory and disappears once the application halts or reinitialises<BR><BR>and a record is written to disk. I know from the web that I'm not alone<BR><BR>here.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Laurie Savage<BR><BR><BR><BR>Pascoe Vale Girls College<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received<BR>in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using<BR>attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,<BR>damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or<BR>not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our<BR>liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any<BR>representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,<BR>and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood<BR>Development.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Scanned by Sonar. <BR><BR>Date: 2010-08-18 14:05:08.466<BR><BR>From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au<BR><BR>To: g.flaherty@xavier.vic.edu.au<BR><BR>Profile: Default_In<BR><BR>Mail id: challenge-2104307658s34-0<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>"This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended<BR>solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.<BR>If you have received this email in error please notify the Network Manager<BR>at Xavier College. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this<BR>email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those<BR>of Xavier College. 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If received<BR>in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using<BR>attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,<BR>damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or<BR>not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our<BR>liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any<BR>representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,<BR>and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood<BR>Development.<BR><BR><BR>Scanned by Sonar. <BR>Date: 2010-08-18 18:10:22993<BR>From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au<BR>To: g.flaherty@xaviervic.edu.au<BR>Profile: Default_In<BR>Mail id: challenge-2119009392sy3-0<BR><BR><BR><BR>"This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended<BR>solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.<BR>If you have received this email in error please notify the Network Manager<BR>at Xavier College. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this<BR>email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those<BR>of Xavier College. Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure material in<BR>this email message is free from computer viruses or other defects, the<BR>attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the<BR>user assumes all responsibility for the use of the material transmitted."<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe<BR>IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by<BR><A href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au</A> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority<BR>and<BR><A href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html</A> <BR><A href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</A> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers<BR>Association Inc<BR><BR><BR>Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.<BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</A> - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe<BR>IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by<BR><A href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au</A> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<BR><A href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html</A> <BR><A href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</A> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<BR></DIV>
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