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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I hope they’ll adjust
something that once was correct and maybe useful and universal but is no
longer. Steven Bird’s earlier post attempted a distinction but all he
really illustrated (at least to this little black duck) was that an array could
be used to store a record. He did not illustrate the necessary existence of a
record as a an entity separate and distinct from an array.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Laurie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Margaret Iaquinto<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 19 August 2010 8:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> List', 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Records and Arrays<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br>
>>> Laurie Savage <savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au> 19/08/2010
8:43 AM >>><br>
Hmm, messy but I don't see any other way. So we teach the kids that this is<br>
a "fact" or definition which does not apply to half of the languages
being<br>
used. Maybe we should be teaching them to prepare COBOL programs on punched<br>
cards too.<br>
<br>
Laurie<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]<br>
On Behalf Of Guy Flaherty<br>
Sent: Thursday, 19 August 2010 8:41 AM<br>
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'<br>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Records and Arrays<br>
<br>
After a quick bit of research, the following approved languages do not<br>
follow the 'definition' of an array as stated on page 161 of the Fitzpatrick<br>
& Keane text:<br>
<br>
Objective C<br>
Python<br>
Perl<br>
Ruby<br>
PHP<br>
Visual Fox Pro<br>
<br>
The other six language do. According to the definitions, the above languages<br>
do not have an 'array' type but are indeed following the definition for a<br>
'record'. Despite the fact that for each of these languages the structures<br>
are described and explained as 'arrays' in their documentation and not<br>
referred to as 'record' types.<br>
<br>
It would seem that Adrian's point of these definitions being used in the<br>
study design is important, and must be considered a requirement of the<br>
course. Equally, if you teach one of the languages above, your students are<br>
not going to understand this well without specific help, in my opinion, as<br>
this will not be their experience in practice.<br>
<br>
The simple answer is that any language type that allows for multiple items<br>
to be referred to as part of a single variable, when the items are required<br>
to be of the same type you have an 'array' and when the items are allowed to<br>
be of differing types you have a 'record'. According to the study design but<br>
purely language dependent in real life.<br>
<br>
Guy Flaherty<br>
Xavier College<br>
<br>
>>> "Adrian Janson"
<janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au> 18/08/10 05:58 PM<br>
>>> <br>
Hi Guy and all,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The definition of array and record are as you stated and I would have<br>
thought that this was a common thing to all languages - but I am not<br>
familiar with PHP at all - and was surprised to see that you could mix data<br>
types in an array! It is important to remember that it is in the study<br>
design (and the next one to) and so is fair game for the examiners (even<br>
though as you said - it would be possibly a controversial topic given the<br>
way PHP treats arrays and records....)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Adrian Janson B.Sc, Dip.Ed, M.Ed<br>
Director of ICT<br>
Melbourne High School, Forrest Hill, South Yarra, Victoria 3141 Australia.<br>
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711<br>
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767<br>
E-mail: janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au<br>
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Website: <<a href="http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/">http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/</a>>
<a href="http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au">http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au</a><br>
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Blog: <<a href="http://jansona.edublogs.org/">http://jansona.edublogs.org/</a>>
<a href="http://jansona.edublogs.org">http://jansona.edublogs.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.comau [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]<br>
On Behalf Of Guy Flaherty<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2010 2:58 PM<br>
To: sofdev@edulistscom.au<br>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Records and Arrays<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Laurie,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I initially thought exactly as you stated when I looked at the reference in<br>
the book. So I did a quick search and in languages like c and pascal arrays<br>
must be of the same data type and records(pascal)/struct(c) can have<br>
different data types for items, as explained in the text.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Being a python using person myself, I am not used to this, as arrays can<br>
have any type of data in them, and there really isn't a 'record' type in<br>
python that I am aware of. I think php is similar.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It would seem that this kind of structure is language dependent, and so not<br>
the best for an exam question, in my opinion.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Guy Flaherty<br>
<br>
Xavier College <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>>> "Laurie Savage" <savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au>
18/08/10 01:57 PM >>><br>
<br>
<br>
I have a problem. In Fitzpatrick and Keane p. 161 (and in the 2007 exam)<br>
<br>
arrays and records are primarily differentiated by data type. So the text<br>
<br>
says: "An array is an indexed collection of elements of the same type of<br>
<br>
data"; "A ... record represents a group of different data
elements".<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
But, in PHP, this works:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<?php <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
$pizzaToppings = array('onion', 'tomato', 'cheese', 'anchovies', 'ham',<br>
<br>
'pepperoni', 1.6, 200); <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
echo "<h1>We like $pizzaToppings[5] PIZZA!</h1>";<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
$num = $pizzaToppings[6] * $pizzaToppings[7];<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
echo $num;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
?><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
i.e. the array is storing data of different types and not storing the<br>
<br>
numeric data as a string. What am I missing here? I've done a search, but<br>
<br>
these are the only references I've seen that define this as the main<br>
<br>
difference. I've been labouring under the delusion that an array lives in<br>
<br>
volatile memory and disappears once the application halts or reinitialises<br>
<br>
and a record is written to disk. I know from the web that I'm not alone<br>
<br>
here.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Laurie Savage<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Pascoe Vale Girls College<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html</a>
<br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA
Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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