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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Agreed again. Way too little time. Therefore</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>why are we wasting time with networking. If</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>we don't have time for the data model or SQL,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>we certainly should not be putting networking</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>in place of them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=idSignature50981>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Russell Quinn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mailto: <A href="mailto:qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au" target=_blank>qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au</A></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> sofdev-request@edulists.com.au<BR><B>Sent:</B> Mon 1/12/2008 12:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> sofdev@edulists.com.au<BR><B>Subject:</B> sofdev Digest, Vol 46, Issue 1<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><PRE style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: SD and Networking (Russell Quinn)
2. RE: SD & Networking (Russell Quinn)
3. Re: RE: SD & Networking (Mark Kelly)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:09:31 +1100
From: Russell Quinn <QN@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: SD and Networking
To: <sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <7EE4F430-98FC-4456-AF0C-324FDCFF9186@mimectl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Agreed, much more than programming.
There is a wealth of material in the SDLC,
but I find many of the students come in
with virtually no programming experience,
and it is a huge rush to get them up to speed
with the basics. Given that the title of the course
is software, I think more time should be made
available for software. If you want to spend
slabs of time on other issues, change the name of the
course. I think IS was far more appropriate.
Russell Quinn
Mailto: qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
From: sofdev-request@edulists.com.au
Sent: Sat 29/11/2008 12:00 PM
To: sofdev@edulists.com.au
Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 45, Issue 29
Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
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1. RE: RE: SD and networking (Townsley, Andrew A)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:43:16 +1100
From: "Townsley, Andrew A" <townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: SD and networking
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<82D96FCEF0C88F44A53C83281F249CE6537632@edusm06.education.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I dont believe SD is about teaching them how to just program though ?
Dont know about linked lists either but maybe collections i better.
andrew townsley
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:35:40 +1100
From: Russell Quinn <QN@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: SD & Networking
To: <sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <BFF09FD9-6D57-40F5-8FAB-F9BD7D94B164@mimectl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In my last email I forgot to include the data model.
Currently SD is way too process orientated.
We need more time for the data model and data design -
entity relation diagrams leading on to the data dictionary.
More time spent on relational matters - primary key,
foreign keys. Perhaps normal forms etc. Include SQL
as a formal part of the course. These matters are much
more relevant to software development
that any networking.
Russell Quinn
Mailto: qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
From: sofdev-request@edulists.com.au
Sent: Sat 29/11/2008 12:00 PM
To: sofdev@edulists.com.au
Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 45, Issue 29
Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: RE: SD and networking (Townsley, Andrew A)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:43:16 +1100
From: "Townsley, Andrew A" <townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: SD and networking
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<82D96FCEF0C88F44A53C83281F249CE6537632@edusm06.education.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I dont believe SD is about teaching them how to just program though ?
Dont know about linked lists either but maybe collections i better.
andrew townsley
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:59:32 +1100
From: Mark Kelly <kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: SD & Networking
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <493336F4.8060809@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It would be nice to put all of those things in a course, but there's
barely time to get beyond the basics for many kids. For the whole year,
we only get about 100 hours of class time.
IMO, the subject is called Software Development and it should focus on
programming. Related or specialised topics such as database programming
and networking need to take their place in the queue.
Russell Quinn wrote:
> In my last email I forgot to include the data model.
> Currently SD is way too process orientated.
> We need more time for the data model and data design -
> entity relation diagrams leading on to the data dictionary.
> More time spent on relational matters - primary key,
> foreign keys. Perhaps normal forms etc. Include SQL
> as a formal part of the course. These matters are much
> more relevant to software development
> that any networking.
>
> Russell Quinn
>
> Mailto: qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au <mailto:qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* sofdev-request@edulists.com.au
> *Sent:* Sat 29/11/2008 12:00 PM
> *To:* sofdev@edulists.com.au
> *Subject:* sofdev Digest, Vol 45, Issue 29
>
> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
> sofdev@edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> sofdev-request@edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> sofdev-owner@edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: RE: SD and networking (Townsley, Andrew A)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:43:16 +1100
> From: "Townsley, Andrew A" <townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: SD and networking
> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> <sofdev@edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <82D96FCEF0C88F44A53C83281F249CE6537632@edusm06.education.vic.gov.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I dont believe SD is about teaching them how to just program though ?
> Dont know about linked lists either but maybe collections i better.
>
>
> andrew townsley
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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>
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> **************************************
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
School Phone +613 8520 9000
School Fax +613 9578 9253
kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
Most people don't realise that small kitchen sponges, when nailed to the
forehead, can really REALLY hurt.
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