Hi,<br><br>I believe a subject should produce quality outcomes. A programming course that provides students with knowledge to create things like a 2D game is a quality output. What is better that a student can complete simple form that calculates numbers compared to a a fully functional 2D game that is graphical and uses a wide range of functionality that a programming language offers. <br>
<br>At the end of the course if parents/potential students see an interesting interactive piece of software compared to a form that calculates numbers they are more likely to be impressed.<br>We could incorporate physics and maths into the course eg how an object falls from a height using physics and use a program to demonstrate how this looks. We can actually use what students have learnt in other subjects making IT programming more integrated with other subjects. The scope is huge.<br>
<br>I remember seeing yr9 students being impressed that we are creating such software , they wanted to undertake IT as it looks like fun. Also schools like to display students work for parents/teachers and quality software is impressive.<br>
Teachers like myself need to make an impact because of short term contract work. A quality output is a good start to retain employment. Contract employment is everywhere.<br><br><br>To learn gantt/pert charts takes weeks of constant work, DFD's takes weeks to do properly, and why do we need memorize such information like the difference between a business object and a business goal in IT?<br>
<br>Why are students learning applications anyway like Access,Dreamweaver because wont these change in years to come? Wasnt this an argument against just learning a programming language?<br><br><br>
Do woodwork students produce a finished item or do they produce a 2
bits of wood with a join. Have they spent their other time
constructing lengthy designs, and doing essays about tree regrowth and
how important this is too society, or business models of wood factories?<br><br><br>Remember many teachers need to sell their subjects to get the numbers, and we cant just rely on them turning up and going along with all our ideas of a rounded education. I know we are in education but IT is subject (to a point) of market forces.<br>
<br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Adrian Janson <<a href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi everyone,</span></p><div class="Ih2E3d">
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">>you
are assuming of course that a study which deals only with those things relating
directly to programming will attract students and bring them back in droves.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
</div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">And this is – I believe – a big assumption!</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Let us say that there are a core of IT students at the moment
who are in Year 10 and preparing to undertake VCE next year. What percentage of
these student do you think look at the course outline and decide "hmmm…
looks like there is not enough programming… I won't be taking that
course – even though it is what I am interested in..!"</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Do you think this number is 5%? 10%, 50%! More?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">In my experience – the students that are keen on IT –
and the ones that I are undertaking my Year 10 programming elective – are
carrying on to enrol in SD3/4 – regardless of the course content.
Now I don't mean to imply that the course content is not important –
however, I think that the students that we are wanting to attract are the ones
that are not necessarily into programming! They are the ones that have
not considered undertaking an IT career. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Adrian</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">BTW: My off-list email to you Andrew was in regards to your lack
of identification.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
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<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Timmer-Arends<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 26 April 2008 3:08 PM<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Re: Re: Industry practice</div></div></span></p>
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<p> </p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Hello
Andrew</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">you
are assuming of course that a study which deals only with those things relating
directly to programming will attract students and bring them back in droves.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Regards</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Robert
T-A</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Brighton
SC</span></p>
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<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-----
Original Message ----- </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:jagguy999@gmail.com" title="jagguy999@gmail.com" target="_blank">andrew barry</a> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">To:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au" title="sofdev@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">Year 12
Software Development Teachers' Mailing List</a> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Saturday, April 26,
2008 10:23 AM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Re: [Year 12 SofDev]
Re: Re: Industry practice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<p>Hi,<br>
<br>
No I havent received a off-topic email.<br>
I think i dont' want an debate on why we should keep the status quo with IT.
I thought the idea was to encourage students to undertake further IT
courses beyond of yr12, and provide with them skills so they feel they can do
it?<br>
<br>
With declining numbers in IT courses everywhere I believe we need to argue for
change , as I have said before. If we don't initiate change then someone will
do it for us, as business adopt a school policy has threatened. I want a
programming subject to teach and another that deals with hands on with
applications eg webpages,VBA etc. Spread the other issues as components of unit
1 and 2.<br>
<br>
If we don't inspire kids in VCE then they dont go onto IT courses, and this
seems to be our current issue(except my classes where I have re jigged things
:).<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au </a>IT Software
Development Mailing List kindly supported by <br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html%20%20" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html</a>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au </a>- VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc</p>
</blockquote>
<p>_______________________________________________ <br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au </a>IT Software
Development Mailing List kindly supported by <br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html%20%20" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html</a>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au </a>- VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc</p>
</div></div></div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
_______________________________________________
<br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank"> http://www.edulists.com.au </a>
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by <br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html" target="_blank"> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank"> http://www.vitta.org.au </a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br>