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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Have I misssed something along the way?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I still have no idea who Andrew Barry (<A
href="mailto:jagguy999@gmail.com)is">jagguy999@gmail.com)</A> is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>So he might be a valuable member of our list or he may be
a rogue or a student or ?????</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Please can we have some sort of identification with each
email to the list..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Robert Hind (Semi-retired)<BR>Ex Traralgon and Ashwood<BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jagguy999@gmail.com href="mailto:jagguy999@gmail.com">andrew
barry</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=sofdev@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au">Year 12 Software Development Teachers'
Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Re: Re:
Industry practice</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi,<BR><BR>I believe a subject should produce quality outcomes.
A programming course that provides students with knowledge to create things
like a 2D game is a quality output. What is better that a student can
complete simple form that calculates numbers compared to a a fully
functional 2D game that is graphical and uses a wide range of
functionality that a programming language offers. <BR><BR>At the end of the
course if parents/potential students see an interesting interactive
piece of software compared to a form that calculates numbers they are more
likely to be impressed.<BR>We could incorporate physics and maths into the
course eg how an object falls from a height using physics and use a program to
demonstrate how this looks. We can actually use what students have learnt in
other subjects making IT programming more integrated with other subjects. The
scope is huge.<BR><BR>I remember seeing yr9 students being impressed that we
are creating such software , they wanted to undertake IT as it looks like fun.
Also schools like to display students work for parents/teachers and quality
software is impressive.<BR>Teachers like myself need to make an impact because
of short term contract work. A quality output is a good start to retain
employment. Contract employment is everywhere.<BR><BR><BR>To learn gantt/pert
charts takes weeks of constant work, DFD's takes weeks to do properly, and why
do we need memorize such information like the difference between a
business object and a business goal in IT?<BR><BR>Why are students learning
applications anyway like Access,Dreamweaver because wont these change in years
to come? Wasnt this an argument against just learning a programming
language?<BR><BR><BR>Do woodwork students produce a finished item or do they
produce a 2 bits of wood with a join. Have they spent their other time
constructing lengthy designs, and doing essays about tree regrowth and how
important this is too society, or business models of wood
factories?<BR><BR><BR>Remember many teachers need to sell their subjects to
get the numbers, and we cant just rely on them turning up and going along with
all our ideas of a rounded education. I know we are in education but IT is
subject (to a point) of market forces.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Adrian Janson <<A
href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</A>>
wrote:<BR>
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<DIV lang=EN-AU vlink="purple" link="blue" bgcolor="white">
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Hi
everyone,</SPAN></P>
<DIV class=Ih2E3d>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>you are assuming of course that a study
which deals only with those things relating directly to programming will
attract students and bring them back in droves.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">And this is – I
believe – a big assumption!</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Let us say that
there are a core of IT students at the moment who are in Year 10 and
preparing to undertake VCE next year. What percentage of these student do
you think look at the course outline and decide "hmmm… looks like there is
not enough programming… I won't be taking that course – even though it is
what I am interested in..!"</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Do you think this
number is 5%? 10%, 50%! More?</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">In my experience –
the students that are keen on IT – and the ones that I are undertaking my
Year 10 programming elective – are carrying on to enrol in SD3/4 –
regardless of the course content. Now I don't mean to imply that the
course content is not important – however, I think that the students that we
are wanting to attract are the ones that are not necessarily into
programming! They are the ones that have not considered undertaking an
IT career. </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Regards,</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Adrian</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">BTW: My off-list
email to you Andrew was in regards to your lack of
identification.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
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<P><B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au"
target=_blank>sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Timmer-Arends<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 26 April 2008 3:08 PM
<DIV class=Ih2E3d><BR><B>To:</B> Year 12 Software Development Teachers'
Mailing List<BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Re: Re: Industry
practice</DIV></DIV></SPAN>
<P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>
<P> </P>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hello Andrew</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">you are assuming of course that a study
which deals only with those things relating directly to programming will
attract students and bring them back in droves.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Robert T-A</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Brighton SC</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message -----
</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=jagguy999@gmail.com href="mailto:jagguy999@gmail.com"
target=_blank>andrew barry</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=sofdev@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:sofdev@edulists.com.au" target=_blank>Year 12 Software
Development Teachers' Mailing List</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:23
AM</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Re: Re: Industry
practice</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P> </P></DIV>
<P>Hi,<BR><BR>No I havent received a off-topic email.<BR>I think i dont'
want an debate on why we should keep the status quo with IT. I
thought the idea was to encourage students to undertake further IT courses
beyond of yr12, and provide with them skills so they feel they can do
it?<BR><BR>With declining numbers in IT courses everywhere I believe we
need to argue for change , as I have said before. If we don't initiate
change then someone will do it for us, as business adopt a school policy
has threatened. I want a programming subject to teach and another that
deals with hands on with applications eg webpages,VBA etc. Spread the
other issues as components of unit 1 and 2.<BR><BR>If we don't inspire
kids in VCE then they dont go onto IT courses, and this seems to be our
current issue(except my classes where I have re jigged things
:).<BR>_______________________________________________ <BR><A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target=_blank>http://www.edulists.com.au
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- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
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VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association
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<P>_______________________________________________ <BR><A
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</A>IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by <BR><A
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- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
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VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association
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<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>_______________________________________________ <BR><A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target=_blank>http://www.edulists.com.au
</A>IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by <BR><A
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- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
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VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association
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