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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Andrew,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>>Couldn't people here put forward their opinion on SD?<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think you have misunderstood me. The answer is (and always
has been YES). My suggestion was that we simply change the name of the thread
so that those that don’t wish to be involved could then isolate the
thread for (shock, horror!) deletion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>>Including so much theory
doesn't get any student excited about learning IT at Uni. After all we are
trying to promote IT beyond yr12 are >we not? Are we not trying to get more
people to do it?<br>
>Do we have the people in charge of the subject with this in mind?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I do understand where you are coming from – however there
are a number of considerations. Firstly, the subject needs to have some rigueur.
We are teaching software development and there are sound theoretic concepts
that are key. In addition to this we are trying to develop our students
into the beginnings of well rounded IT professional types – who have a
holistic view of the system, the effect that software and software development
has on the system as a whole. Then there is the exam – which is
also an important consideration. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Andrew – are you from the tertiary sector? Although
I am interested in getting students to become excited about ‘learning IT at
Uni’ – this is not actually my primary motivation. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Adrian Janson, <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>VITTA President<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Director of ICT, <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Melbourne High School, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>E-mail: <a href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au"><span
style='color:blue'>janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Website: <a href="http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au"><span
style='color:blue'>http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Blog: <a href="http://jansona.edublogs.org/"><span
style='color:blue'>http://jansona.edublogs.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>andrew barry<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 16 April 2008 7:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Industry practice - tertiary links<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi,<br>
Couldn't people here put forward their opinion on SD?<br>
I prefer to just teach an IT subject which is just programming and some
programming design eg psuedo code. <br>
<br>
Including so much theory doesn't get any student excited about learning IT at
Uni. After all we are trying to promote IT beyond yr12 are we not? Are we not
trying to get more people to do it?<br>
Do we have the people in charge of the subject with this in mind?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Adrian Janson <<a
href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Steven,<br>
<br>
I think that links between the tertiary and secondary sectors need to become<br>
stronger for us to both move forward - and it would be great to have an<br>
extended dialogue with you about this when the time is right (which may be<br>
soon). So if you are keen to help us onto the right track in terms of<br>
industry standard practice - then it would be great to chat!<br>
<br>
For now however, I think it is important not to confuse those working with<br>
and coming to terms with the current study design. I have renamed this<br>
thread so that those who wish to ignore - simply can. The current study<br>
design is what is important for the 'right now'.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
Adrian Janson,<br>
VITTA President<br>
Director of ICT,<br>
Melbourne High School,<br>
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.<br>
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711<br>
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767<br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au</a><br>
Blog: <a href="http://jansona.edublogs.org" target="_blank">http://jansona.edublogs.org</a><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au">sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Steven Bird<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2008 11:04 AM<br>
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List<br>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Resource flows in a DFD<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Mark Kelly <<a
href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
> That's what concerns me. We are marking things right or wrong
according<br>
to<br>
> a set of sometimes-arbitrary rules and definitions that sometimes only<br>
apply<br>
> in our little world of VCE theory. An outsider in The Real World
could<br>
well<br>
> argue that our answers are either moot or just plain wrong according to<br>
best<br>
> practice.<br>
><br>
> Our definition of the SDLC, for example, is just one of many, yet we
ask<br>
> very specific questions about it that can rule all other SDLC variants<br>
> incorrect.<br>
<br>
For effective assessment, I think we need to focus on knowledge and<br>
skills that are relevant and well-codified. As a body of knowledge, I<br>
don't think the SDLC scores very highly on either measure. There are<br>
many other practical and interesting topics that could be covered.<br>
<br>
A possible starting point is to consider the relationship between the<br>
VCE and university curricula. From where I stand, it seems very odd<br>
that VCE would include aspects of our third year subjects as they were<br>
taught 10-20 years ago. Could we find ways to migrate our first-year<br>
curriculum into VCE/VELS?<br>
<br>
By the way, here is what Melbourne University does in first year IT,<br>
as of 2008: <a href="http://informatics.unimelb.edu.au/" target="_blank">http://informatics.unimelb.edu.au/</a><br>
I guess I might have some of your 2007 students. :)<br>
<br>
Steven Bird<br>
<a href="http://www.csse.unimelb.edu.au/%7Esb/" target="_blank">http://www.csse.unimelb.edu.au/~sb/</a><br>
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