<HTML dir=ltr><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV id=idOWAReplyText84560 dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>In my opinion we should not have to take a day out of class just to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>understand what is in the course. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>It wastes a day of class room learning, </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>costs the school $ to </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>hire an ET (or hand out extras to already busy teachers) and fund the PD.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>What is wrong with the course designers doing a good job in the first place?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>If my boss had asked me to submit a job spec and I handed in a vague set</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>of statements like our course description, I would not have been asked a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>second time. I know what sort of comments I would get from students and </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>parents if my </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>classes were conducted in generalities.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Why should my maths students miss out on a (hopefully) quality</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>class b/c the SD designers don't address the course in detail?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=idSignature83248>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Russell Quinn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mailto: <A href="mailto:qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au" target=_blank>qn@boxhillhs.vic.edu.au</A></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><BR>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> sofdev-request@edulists.com.au<BR><B>Sent:</B> Fri 7/03/2008 8:33 AM<BR><B>To:</B> sofdev@edulists.com.au<BR><B>Subject:</B> sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 29<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><PRE style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
sofdev@edulists.com.au
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
sofdev-request@edulists.com.au
You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17 (Adrian Janson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:29:08 +1100
From: "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"
<sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<004401c87fd1$1cdeb930$569c2b90$@adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Teresa,
I take on board what you are saying about the technical topics - and we will
see what we can put together in terms of PD or resources.
I must say though - in defense of the VCE IT study design PD day - that the
day is all about breaking down the study design. The primary purpose of the
day is to ensure that teachers are well supported in their understanding of
the requirements of the course, the areas of study, the SACs, how to assess
the SACs, etc.
Cheers,
Adrian
Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au
Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Theresa Gate
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 1:25 PM
To: sofdev@edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
In regards to the present topic, I have a degree in Information systems
and am confident with teaching the theory of Systems analysis and
design, but feel nervous with some of the technical stuff because it has
changed so much in the past five years since I last taught IS so I
signed up to the recent VITTA workshops. I was dissapointed with the
workshops, which basically did no more than break down the Study design,
something I can do myself. I feel that some more specific PD for
networking, modelling and even programming - like building programs for
portable devices would really be more helpful.
Regards
Theresa Gate
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
sofdev-request@edulists.com.au
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:42 AM
To: sofdev@edulists.com.au
Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
sofdev@edulists.com.au
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
sofdev-request@edulists.com.au
You can reach the person managing the list at
sofdev-owner@edulists.com.au
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Why aren't teachers able to write their own material ?
(Kevork Krozian)
2. Re: Copyright / authorship / solutions / ?? (Mark Kelly)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:32:07 +1100
From: "Kevork Krozian" <Kroset@novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write their
own material ?
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <47CFD635.EE3E.0095.0@novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
Hi Adrian and Mark,
Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
keep avoiding.
If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
about teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
be fair to the students and ourselves.
In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
instructor, you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not know
a bus network even if you were run over by one.
I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
active and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are teachers
unable to write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with
solutions they can show others ?
I would say because the training and the need for new and current
training has not kept up with the demands of the course(s). What do we
do about this ?
I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and need
to go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever else
we need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver
updated courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
they can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
Just my thoughts
Kevork
>>> Mark Kelly <kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
more complex.
In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
Adrian Janson wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
SAC
> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
of
> a concern.
>
>
>
> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
spirit
> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
not
> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
this
> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
to
> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
> another teachers name on it.
>
>
>
> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
the
> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
> changed in any way without the permission of the author*. As I put
the
> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
it
> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
this?
>
>
>
> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
deal.
>
>
>
> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
SACs
> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
number
> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
SACs
> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
provide
> as best I could. I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
seems
> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
> materials and/or solutions.
>
>
>
> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
use. I
> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
the
> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
familiar
> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
students a
> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
of
> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
I
> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
> picture.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adrian Janson
>
> VITTA President
>
> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
> [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
Gordon A
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
>
>
> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
> Stephenson...
>
> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
name
> on it if you change it.
>
>
>
> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
> scheme looks good.
>
>
>
> gordon
>
>
>
> ----------------
>
> Gordon Poultney
>
> Horsham College
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
> What about a simpler attribution such as
>
> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
by
> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>
> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
attribution
> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
info
> re. source).
>
> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
sharing.
>
> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
because of
> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>
> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
> possible....
>
> ====================================================
> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> mailto: digby.stephen.p@edumail.vic.gov.au
> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
> ====================================================
>
> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
> Churchill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
> Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>
> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>
> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>
> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
the
> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
modifiers
> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>
> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
by some
> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
if I
> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>
> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>
> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
version
> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
for their
> labours!
>
> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>
> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
the
> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
purposes by
> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
as it
> morphs through the ether.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mark
>
> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
morphed
> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
- for
> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
diagram
> for the teacher too.
>> cheers Gordon
>>
>> ----------------
>> Gordon Poultney
>> Horsham College
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>>
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>> design
>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
You
>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
discretely.
>>
>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>> Outcome.
>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
the
>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
just
>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
40/10.
>>
>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
this
>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>
>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
report.
>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
of
>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>
>> Just an opinion.
>>
>> Maggie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
part
>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>
>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>> > Hi Ross,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
would
>> do,
>> > for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
students
>> > have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
a
>> > study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>> > conditions)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
to
>> the
>> > holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
do
>> just
>> > for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
I
>> don't
>> > even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Claudia Graham
>> >
>> > Overnewton College
>> >
>> > Keilor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> > *From:* sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
>> > [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
Ross
>> > A
>> > *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>> > *To:* sofdev@edulists.com.au
>> > *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>> > Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
this).
>> > My
>>
>> > question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
am
>> on
>> > the right track.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > i. Can/should they access the internet.
>> >
>> > ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
through
>> the
>> > Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kindest Regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > **Ross Ogilvie **
>> >
>> > **LSF ICT Leader **
>> >
>> > **Sunbury**** College**
>> >
>> > **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>> >
>> > **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>> >
>> > ** (H) 54272843**
>> >
>> > **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>> >
>> > **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>> > --
>> > Mark Kelly
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail:
8520 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253 kel AT
mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
buy a new bomber.
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:36:38 +1100
From: Mark Kelly <kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev@edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <47CF3C96.1000409@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ah - I didn't notice you were chasing SD stuff... I assumed it was ITA.
I don't know if there are SD QATs. Your best bet is to check the
VITTA resources. There are SD SACs there.
I will attach the U3 outcomes I used last year, which were approved by
VCAA during their audit of my material.
Fatima Nazar wrote:
> Hello Mark,
>
> I have looked into QATs and even sent them an email (no reply as yet)
about SD - I am brand new to SD and would LOVE to even buy some SACs
with suggested solutions as I would then know what can be an excellent
answer :) so let me know if you have some up your sleeve please
>
> Regards
> Fatima
> (have 2 SD classes)
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 8:28 AM
> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>
>
>
> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel
rather
> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
> more complex.
>
> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>
> Adrian Janson wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
SAC
>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
of
>> a concern.
>>
>>
>>
>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
spirit
>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
not
>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
this
>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
to
>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
>> another teachers name on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
the
>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>> changed in any way without the permission of the author.... As I put
the
>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
it
>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
this?
>>
>>
>>
>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great deal.
>>
>>
>>
>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
SACs
>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
number
>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
SACs
>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
provide
>> as best I could. I don't mind doing this - however, I think this
seems
>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
>> materials and/or solutions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now - I don't mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to use.
I
>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
the
>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
familiar
>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
students a
>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
of
>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
I
>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>> picture.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Adrian Janson
>>
>> VITTA President
>>
>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
Gordon A
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>>
>>
>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>> Stephenson...
>>
>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
name
>> on it if you change it.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>> scheme looks good.
>>
>>
>>
>> gordon
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------
>>
>> Gordon Poultney
>>
>> Horsham College
>>
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>
>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
by
>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>
>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
attribution
>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
info
>> re. source).
>>
>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
sharing.
>>
>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
because of
>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>
>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>> possible....
>>
>> ====================================================
>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>> mailto: digby.stephen.p@edumail.vic.gov.au
>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>> ====================================================
>>
>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>> Churchill
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au]
>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>> Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>
>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>
>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
the
>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
modifiers
>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>
>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
by some
>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
if I
>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>
>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>
>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
version
>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
for their
>> labours!
>>
>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>
>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
the
>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
purposes by
>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
as it
>> morphs through the ether.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
morphed
>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
- for
>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
diagram
>> for the teacher too.
>>> cheers Gordon
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>> Gordon Poultney
>>> Horsham College
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ross
>>>
>>> Ross
>>>
>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>> design
>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram). You
>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
discretely.
>>>
>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>> Outcome.
>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
the
>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
just
>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of 40/10.
>>>
>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
this
>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>
>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
report.
>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
of
>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>
>>> Just an opinion.
>>>
>>> Maggie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>
>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
part
>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>
>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
would
>>> do,
>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
students
>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have a
>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>> conditions)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior to
>>> the
>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would do
>>> just
>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons; I
>>> don't
>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>
>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>
>>>> Keilor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces@edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
Ross
>>>> A
>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>> *To:* sofdev@edulists.com.au
>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with this).
>>>> My
>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
am
>>> on
>>>> the right track.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>
>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
through
>>> the
>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>
>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>
>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>
>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>
>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>
>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>
>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>
>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 95789253
> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
<http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/>
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
> buy a new bomber.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
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--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
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