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<DIV></DIV><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Savage, John L<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 17 February 2015 12:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Normalisation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I’m in complete agreement with you. I wrote some small commercial FMP apps back in the 90’s and was delighted with the rapid design-develop-test-expand nature of the beast, it really is agile. Luckily I hopped on after it had become relational and was never seduced by repeating fields. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I wish it was cheaper, I’d put it through the school if they had a better pricing policy. Likewise with Adobe products.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Laurie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 17 February 2015 12:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Normalisation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Laurie.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, Filemaker is a funny old beast. It has grown organically from primitive flat-file origins and - while it is now fully relational - it has some vestigial tonsils and appendices that perplex purists.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Filemaker gets a slap on the wrist for retaining its atavistic (albeit <i>very</i> tempting) repeating fields (an array-like field) which - if used - automatically disqualify it from 1NF! <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I used repeating fields over a decade ago in Rupert (my student report database) as a quick-and-dirty kludge as I hurriedly threw the first version together. Thirteen years later the repeating fields were still embedded in Rupert since their removal required a complete rebuild of the schema. While I appreciate Filemaker bravely maintaining support for repeating fields for the sake of backward compatibility, I sometimes wish it had removed them and forced me to go cold turkey, redesign the table structures and get that particular naughty monkey off my back.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- As you said, FMP does not use queries as Access does. Calculated fields are defined as fields, appear as fields, and can be used like any other field (which makes much more sense to me, AAMOF.) Unfortunately the purists see "calculated fields" and immediately brandish their garlic and crucifixes and start burning databases at the stake. But as Filemaker fans know, it does <i>not</i> store the results of calculations in fields so it does <i>not</i> violate normalisation rules. That's why I complained to the examinations unit about Question A20.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But in spite of its charming eccentricities, Filemaker is a lovely way to learn databases. Access took many years to copy Filemaker's powerful and simple drag-and-drop script writing technique. It allows instant web and LAN database publishing. There is a passionate fanbase keen to help newbies.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It's only a shame that Filemaker Corp changed their licensing for schools. I haven't checked recently, but I believe the golden days of cheap concurrent licences are gone, and they charge quite a lot for per-seat licences.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 17 February 2015 at 10:38, Savage, John L <<a href="mailto:savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au" target="_blank">savage.john.l@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I have moved to Filemaker Pro because I think it provides a smooth introduction to database development while being astonishingly powerful. Unfortunately it <b><u>appears</u></b> to break the normalisation rules and doesn’t really follow the standard query process at the user level. I say “Appears” because of course its calculated fields are created on the fly and are not stored so in fact it is executing queries during standard browsing as well as during the search mode. The tricky thing is convincing students that the calculated fields that are integral to FM design are really the outcome of a query performed on the fly and created during the design stage. I think mine would have all answered D even though I’m sure B is the answer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Laurie Savage</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 16 February 2015 11:38 AM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Normalisation</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I sent a protest about the question to the examinations unit. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have not heard back from them yet.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 16 February 2015 at 10:26, Cooper, Michael J <<a href="mailto:cooper.michael.j@edumail.vic.gov.au" target="_blank">cooper.michael.j@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi all, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Short time reader, first time writer!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Great to hear the exam report is not far away.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Like Mark mentioned in his post-moterm I am very interested in the answer to MC Q20, regarding calculated fields in a database.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We use FIleMaker Pro, only 5% of the class got correct answer (1 out of 21). I thought it was D as well. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Really like the normalisation descriptions being offered!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>Michael Cooper</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>ICT Co-ordinator</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br><img border=0 width=167 height=28 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01D04AB0.BEA79E60"><br><a href="http://www.braybrooksc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">www.braybrooksc.vic.edu.au</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><snip><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><i>"</i><i><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly, it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." Matt Groening</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark Kelly<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>mark AT vceit DOT com<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p><b>Important - </b>This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. 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