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<div>Haha. A bunch of crazies have convinced you you're not crazy. Lol</div>
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<div style="font-size:75%; color:#575757">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3</div>
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-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Stephanie POLAN <pos@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> <br>
Date: <br>
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List <itapps@edulists.com.au> <br>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes <br>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Thank you everyone, You are all wise and wonderful and have made me feel so much better, with your help I have ascertained that I'm not crazy!!
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<div style="">Your advice has made a huge difference!!</div>
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<div style="">Cheers </div>
<div style="">Stepha</div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Mark Scott <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
I agree but my original comment still stands.<br>
<br>
An "S" is meaningless to "future employees or tertiary institutions".<br>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of Savage, John L<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 1:31 PM<br>
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes<br>
<br>
In a school where many parents may only have a primary school education, the achievement of a "High School Diploma" is an end in itself and is not to be sneezed at and will often represent sheer persistence. Not all year 12 students are aiming for tertiary
entrance although 60% of ours get there and almost none are unemployed after year 12.<br>
<br>
Laurie Savage<br>
Pascoe Vale Girls College<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of Matheson, Geoff J<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 8:02 AM<br>
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes<br>
<br>
I'm not so sure you can say that the "S" is meaningless in the real world.<br>
For many of my students, completing the VCE is an achievement in and of itself, and the "S" is the ultimate determinant on whether or not that happens. "Completing the VCE" still has meaning for employers, and I find that if students are struggling to meet
the "S" requirements of IT Apps or Software Development, they are likely struggling to complete the VCE more broadly.<br>
<br>
<br>
Geoff Matheson<br>
Senior Campus Reports Co-ordinator<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/06/13 4:42 AM, "Mark Scott" <<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>Steph<br>
><br>
>Just keep in mind that future employees or tertiary institutions won't<br>
>hold an S in a subject in any high regard if their marks are so low<br>
>that they do not achieve a reportable ATAR.<br>
>As Robert has said the consequences for the student is the UG grade.<br>
>The S is meaningless in the real world.<br>
><br>
>Mark Scott<br>
>Luther College<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>Mark Scott<br>
>Daily Administrator<br>
><br>
>Plymouth Road<br>
>Croydon Hills Victoria 3136<br>
><br>
><br>
>Telephone (03) 9724 2000<br>
>Direct Line (03) 9724 2023<br>
><a href="http://www.luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">www.luther.vic.edu.au</a><br>
><br>
>Please consider the environment before printing this email.<br>
><br>
>This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential<br>
>information.<br>
>If you are not the intended recipient you may not distribute or<br>
>reproduce this email or attachments. If you have received this message<br>
>in error please notify us by return mail.<br>
>________________________________________<br>
>From: <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]<br>
>On Behalf Of Robert Timmer-Arends [<a href="mailto:timmer@westnet.com.au">timmer@westnet.com.au</a>]<br>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:58 PM<br>
>To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>
>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes<br>
><br>
>Hello Stephanie<br>
><br>
>just to add to Robert's statement, the study design also says (p31) 'to<br>
>achieve this outcome the student will draw on key knowledge and key<br>
>skills outlined in Area of Study 2' and then goes on to list 15 KK<br>
>points and 6 KS points. From what you have said, the student has<br>
>demonstrated a minimum knowledge of the use of the chosen software<br>
>(covered by dot point 4 of KS) and nothing else. For example, did<br>
>he/she design a solution? did he/she select and apply testing<br>
>methods...? has he/she demonstrated knowledge of design tools for<br>
>describing data type? and so on. VCAA says the dot points should not be<br>
>a checklist, but at the same time this does not mean a student should<br>
>be given the nod for just demonstrating achievement of one of them.<br>
><br>
>Also, don't forget that while the student may eventually be awarded an 'S'<br>
>for the outcome (as others have pointed out), the grade you award for<br>
>the SAC (which is 'stand-alone') will stand no matter what the student<br>
>demonstrated beforehand or demonstrates afterward - and it sounds like<br>
>a UG is in the offing.<br>
><br>
>Regards<br>
>Robert T-A<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>----- Original Message -----<br>
>From: <<a href="mailto:geoffmoss37@bigpond.com">geoffmoss37@bigpond.com</a>><br>
>To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"<br>
><<a href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">itapps@edulists.com.au</a>><br>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 5:38 PM<br>
>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Hi Stephanie<br>
>><br>
>> I agree with Robert. Keep in mind that the granting of the 'S' does<br>
>>not need to occur in the production of the SAC. The student should<br>
>>be/is able to demonstrate these skills during the time of the<br>
>>outcome, including the practice SAC and any other preparatory<br>
>>classes, as well as during the SAC.<br>
>><br>
>> This enables a student who was unable to attend or complete a SAC due<br>
>> to illness or any other excuse that does not allow an extension to<br>
>> gain an 'S' for the outcome.<br>
>><br>
>> Geoff Moss<br>
>> RMIT<br>
>><br>
>> ---- Robert <<a href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Hi Stephanie,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Neither Wonderful nor Wise, but certainly older than Mark :-)<br>
>>><br>
>>> To add to Mark Scott's response to your question. I do not agree<br>
>>> with Mark.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The study design clearly states that<br>
>>><br>
>>> "The award of satisfactory completion for a unit is based on a<br>
>>> decision that the student has demonstrated achievement of the set of<br>
>>> outcomes specified for the unit. This decision will be based on the<br>
>>> teacher's assessment of the student's performance on assessment<br>
>>> tasks designated for the unit."<br>
>>><br>
>>> So in terms of Unit 3 Outcome 2, Task 1, the student would have to<br>
>>><br>
>>> "Design, and develop using a relational database management system,<br>
>>> a solution to an information problem"<br>
>>><br>
>>> This does require the student to, amongst other things: ( See<br>
>>>Assessment Handbook )<br>
>>> a.. select and use appropriate software functions of relational<br>
>>>database management software, as published annually in the VCAA<br>
>>>Bulletin VCE, VCAL and VET, to create database tables, relationships<br>
>>>among them and to construct queries to retrieve required information<br>
>>>(underlining<br>
>>> mine)<br>
>>> If your student did not do this then he should not get an S. By your<br>
>>>description he did not did not do all this.<br>
>>><br>
>>> By all means give him a chance to redeem himself, in fact you should<br>
>>> do this.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Robert Hind<br>
>>> Retired<br>
>>> Ex Traralgon and Ashwood<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>>> From: Mark Scott<br>
>>> To: 'Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List'<br>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 3:42 PM<br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Steph<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Not sure if I qualify as Wonderful or Wise but.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Yes this is an S.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> We did away with the concept of "fail" years ago so we could brag<br>
>>>about the "pass" rate at VCE.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Mark<br>
>>><br>
>>> Luther College<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Mark Scott<br>
>>> Daily Administrator<br>
>>> Luther<br>
>>><br>
>>> Plymouth Road<br>
>>> Croydon Hills Victoria 3136<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Luther<br>
>>><br>
>>> Telephone (03) 9724 2000<br>
>>> Direct Line (03) 9724 2023<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">www.luther.vic.edu.au</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This email and any attachments may contain privileged and<br>
>>>confidential information.<br>
>>> If you are not the intended recipient you may not distribute or<br>
>>>reproduce this email<br>
>>> or attachments. If you have received this message in error please<br>
>>>notify us by return mail.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> From: <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a><br>
>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of Stephanie POLAN<br>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 3:21 PM<br>
>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>
>>> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Good Afternoon Wonderfully Wise People,<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm looking for your professional opinion on the topic of how much<br>
>>>work a student must produce in order to gain an S on outcome 2 unit<br>
>>>3.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I have a student that opened Access, created a table, created a<br>
>>> query that didn't do anything 'query-like' he did all the sorting<br>
>>> and calculating outside of Access.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Apparently this is enough to get an S.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This is my first year teaching year 12 and find this concept<br>
>>> unbelievable, I can not comprehend this.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Your professional opinion/coping strategies would be much<br>
>>>appreciated.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Steph Polan<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>><br>
>>> Miss Polan<br>
>>><br>
>>> McKinnon SC<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>>---<br>
>>>------<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>
>>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>
>>><br>
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>>>l<br>
>>> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology<br>
>>>Teachers Association Inc <br><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools" target="_blank">http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</a> - Swinburne University<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>>---<br>
>>>------<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
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>><br>
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>>- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><br>
>><a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology<br>
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http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Miss Polan
<div>McKinnon SC</div>
</div>
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