Comments from my lot bordered on this is madness, spanned what language are you speaking and occasionally crossed into a range of assorted mumbles. I enjoyed freaking them out by swapping to the Access database SQL view (approximating the real engine behind these beasts). I do have a backup plan and must get around to exploring over the term break, Base in Libre Office and FileMaker Pro. <div>
<br></div><div>I have to agree, spreadsheets may be database junk food but my students seem to fatten up quicker on this diet. I want to give GoogleDoc Spreadsheets a serious look over. The embedded scripts you can add look really cool and it overcomes issues of version, platform and home access. Anybody else considering this? There is a swag of training resources and I am just working my way through the GoogleApp trainer course (free and online) </div>
<div> <a href="http://edutraining.googleapps.com/Training-Home/module-4-docs/chapter-4">http://edutraining.googleapps.com/Training-Home/module-4-docs/chapter-4</a></div><div><br></div><div>Regards Roland</div><div><br>
</div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 December 2011 21:40, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:geoffmoss37@bigpond.com">geoffmoss37@bigpond.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Fully concur with you Mark, especially since we have many students doing Units 3&4 without Units 1&2 experience and many without any prior experience with spreadsheets or databases.<br>
<br>
Loath is not a strong enough word for their attitude towards databases, especially when they have to learn how to use the software as well, having not used the software beforehand. Even the few who did have Units 1&2 experience did not want to do databases for U4O1.<br>
<br>
At least with spreadsheets they can get a fairly quick response to their actions and errors are generally easier to remedy.<br>
<br>
Likewise, my students' results also reflected a better understanding of spreadsheets.<br>
<br>
Geoff Moss<br>
RMIT<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<br>
---- Mark KELLY <<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi Robert<br>
><br>
> I don't use spreadsheets as databases... did I somehow suggest that?<br>
><br>
> I've found the number of students having trouble with spreadsheets is<br>
</div>> *way*less than those having dB trouble - and their marks for U4O1<br>
<div><div class="h5">> compared to<br>
> U3O2 clearly reflect that.<br>
><br>
> On 5 December 2011 15:14, Robert Hind <<a href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Hi Mark,<br>
> ><br>
> > I have never been in favour of using a spreadsheet as a database. So would<br>
> > really go for a RDBMS for U401 rather than spreadsheet software. Introduce<br>
> > the RDBMS in year 11 and progress from there. Sure some students have<br>
> > problems with databases, but then the same students have trouble with<br>
> > spreadsheets :-)<br>
> ><br>
> > Robert Hind (Semi-retired) OOF, GOM, COF<br>
> > Ashwood and Traralgon<br>
> > <a href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ----- Original Message -----<br>
> > From: "Mark Scott" <<a href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au">msc@luther.vic.edu.au</a>><br>
> > To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">itapps@edulists.com.au</a>><br>
> > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 10:28 AM<br>
> > Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Spreadsheet vs Database for U4O1<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > > Dear all<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I am considering a move away from Spreadsheets for U4O1.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > It just seemed that the 2011 exam might have favoured those students who<br>
> > > did Databases instead.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > What do people think?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > thanks<br>
> > > Mark Scott<br>
> > > Luther College<br>
> > ><br>
> > > "The busier you get, the slower you walk" anon<br>
> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > <a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>
> > > IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>
> > > <a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> -<br>
> > > Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><br>
> > > <a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology<br>
> > Teachers<br>
> > > Association Inc <br><br>
> > > <a href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools" target="_blank">http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</a> - Swinburne University<br>
> > ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > <a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>
> > IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>
> > <a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> -<br>
> > Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><br>
> > <a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology<br>
> > Teachers Association Inc <br><br>
> > <a href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools" target="_blank">http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</a> - Swinburne University<br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Mark Kelly<br>
> Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>
> McKinnon Secondary College<br>
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>
> Direct line / Voicemail: <a href="tel:%2B613%208520%209085" value="+61385209085">+613 8520 9085</a>, Fax <a href="tel:%2B613%209578%209253" value="+61395789253">+613 9578 9253</a><br>
> <a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
> VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>
</div></div>> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist <<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au/" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au/</a>><br>
<div class="im HOEnZb">><br>
> Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.<br>
<br>
</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>
IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>
<a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br><br>
<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc <br><br>
<a href="http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools" target="_blank">http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools</a> - Swinburne University<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>--<br>Roland Gesthuizen - eLearning Coordinator - Keysborough Secondary College<br><br>"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead<br>
</div>