Obviously there are not supposed to be wasted questions on exams.<br><br>But if they have a detailed question on NF1-3 on an ITA exam, such as 3c in the sample questions, most of the state would get zero for it. <br><br>It would be a great discriminator question to find the 50 study scorers, but not much good for anything else.<br>
<br>2c worth, rapidly devaluating.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 April 2011 12:45, Andrew Shortell <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shortell@get2me.net">shortell@get2me.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Your analysis of past papers (and for me the insights gained from being an exam marker for years and vce teacher for 17 years and exam writer etc) would lead you to consider the purpose of the exam and what it means to have a "wasted" question --to set an exam with a "wasted" question is not worthwhile .... (think about it!!)<div>
<br></div><div>part of teaching unit 3 & 4 is all about understanding the exam and how the exam panel thinks and then acting on that knowledge. </div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>Andrew</div><div><br></div>
</font><div><div><div class="im"><div><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Georgia;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><div>
<div><font face="Chalkboard">Andrew Shortell</font></div><div><font size="3"><span style="font-size:12px">Heidelberg Teaching Unit in 2011</span></font></div></div></span>
</div>
<br></div><div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div>On 02/04/2011, at 6:31 AM, Mark Scott wrote:</div><br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Georgia;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><div>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><div style="font-family:Tahoma;direction:ltr;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px"><div>Which could all be solved if VCAA shared there understanding of the three Normal Forms.</div><div><font face="tahoma" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="tahoma" size="2">yours in frustration</font></div><div><font face="tahoma" size="2">Mark Scott</font></div><div><font face="tahoma" size="2">Luther College</font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"></font> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><hr><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b><span> </span><a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a><span> </span>[<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY [<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Friday, April 01, 2011 6:40 PM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample exam questions andentity-relationship diagrams<br>
</font><br></div><div></div><div>By the looks of the<span> </span><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf" target="_blank"><font color="#000000">sample exam questions</font></a><span> </span>my ITA kids are going to be seriously troubled. I'm guessing a question like 3c is going to score about 0.01 marks out of 2 on average across the state. I wonder what the success rate would be amongst ITA teachers for that question... To get my kids to answer it well, I'd need to spend at least two periods (more like a week) just on normalisation theory - and frankly, it's not worth it.<br>
<br>Sorry for being grumpy about this, but this level of complexity really does not suit ITA. I don't mind normalisation being a bit of key knowledge, but how it might be examined seems excessive.<br><br>Woof!<br>Grumpy Mark K<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 1 April 2011 17:08, Timmer-Arends<span> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:timmer@melbpc.org.au" target="_blank">timmer@melbpc.org.au</a>></span><span> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" lang="EN-AU"><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Hello Mark</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">I'm curious to know what these conflicting sources are.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">I've followed Robert H's link and the page one gets to doesn't actually define them but does describe a (simplified) process to get to each NF - and what one gets from the process does conform with NF defs. The links from this page do go to definitions and they are in agreement with other sources I have looked at.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Mark K's quote is a definition of 2NF that conforms to other definitions.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div>
<font face="Arial" size="2">The only difference I can see between various versions I have read is the degree of mathematical/academic gobbledy-gook involved.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div>
<font face="Arial" size="2">1NF, 2NF and 3NF were defined way back in the seventies and because they were formed from a theoretical basis I don't think they are going to have changed all that much.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">About the only thing that seems to have changed greatly is the addition of another three NFs.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">I think the issue is a problem with the question, not with the consistency of the definitions. Decoding the definitions for consumption by students is of course another matter...</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Regards</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Robert T-A</font></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>----- Original Message -----</div><blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div><div style="background-color:rgb(228, 228, 228);background-repeat:initial initial"><b>From:</b><span> </span><a title="msc@luther.vic.edu.au" href="mailto:msc@luther.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">Mark Scott</a></div><div>
<b>To:</b><span> </span><a title="itapps@edulists.com.au" href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List</a></div></div><div><div></div><div><div><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Friday, April 01, 2011 2:45 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Sample exam questions andentity-relationship diagrams</div><div><br></div><div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt">Paula</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt"></span> </p><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt">This is good stuff but we are still struggling with Question 3c</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt"></span> </p><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt">Any chance of a VCAA definition of what actually goes in 1NF, 2NF and 3NF.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt"></span> </p><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt">The definitions are different depending on which “source” you use.</span></div>
<div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;color:black;font-size:11pt">thanks<br>Mark Scott<br>Luther College</span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">
<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;color:black;font-size:11pt">PS I suppose we could all wait for the guru (Mark Kelly) to provide an answer.<span> </span></span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:black;font-size:11pt">J</span><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;color:black;font-size:11pt"><br>
<br><br></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;color:black;font-size:11pt"></span> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">
<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:11pt"></span> </p><div><div style="border-bottom-width:medium;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-color:initial;border-left-width:medium;border-left-style:none;border-left-color:initial;padding-bottom:0cm;padding-left:0cm;padding-right:0cm;border-top-color:rgb(181, 196, 223);border-top-width:1pt;border-top-style:solid;border-right-width:medium;border-right-style:none;border-right-color:initial;padding-top:3pt">
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><b><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"><span> </span><a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a><span> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Christophersen, Paula P<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Friday, 1 April 2011 1:32 PM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>[Year 12 IT Apps] Sample exam questions and entity-relationship diagrams</span></div>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Dear colleagues</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">The examination specifications and some sample questions focusing on new content in the study design are now on the VCAA website:</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/publications/IT-Apps-samp.pdf</a></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Structurally the examination remains the same – two sections: Section A multiple choice; Section B short and extended responses.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">I draw your attention to a couple of matters in the sample questions:</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-family:Symbol;font-size:9pt" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span> <span> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 4 focuses on an entity relationship diagram – this hopefully clarifies recent concerns that have been raised.</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-family:Symbol;font-size:9pt" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span> <span> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 7 illustrates one way in which the examination can deal with the choice of different software in Unit 4, Area of Study 1. Here a common question is presented, and students select the software tool to explain their answer.</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-family:Symbol;font-size:9pt" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span> <span> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 9 is an example of an extended response (worth 8 marks) with prompts to guide answers</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:93pt"><span style="font-family:Symbol;font-size:9pt" lang="EN-US"><span>·<span> <span> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Question 12 is an example of the scope of a question on RDBMS – the focus can only extent to what is covered in Unit 3. Again it illustrates an extended response with prompts</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Regards</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Paula</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US"></span> </p>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">Paula Christophersen</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">ICT Curriculum Manager</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">VCAA</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">41 St Andrews Place</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">EAST MELBOURNE 3002</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="EN-US">(03) 9651 4378</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt"><span lang="EN-US"></span> </p></div></div></div><br><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"></p></blockquote></div><br clear="all"></blockquote>
</div><br>--<span> </span><br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br>
<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>VCE IT Lecture Notes:<span> </span><a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br>
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McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253<br><a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<br><br><font>All generalisations are false, except this one.</font><br><br>