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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am VERY fortunate to have a web design competition run by our Learning area Network. Telstra and Monash Uni are the primary sponsors. They find business for us to us. Its run in term 2 so I switch Unit 1 and 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Warrick Mann<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Traralgon College<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark KELLY<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 7 September 2010 9:20 AM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 2 Outcome 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I tend to start the outcome quite early, often when starting U2O2. Since there's little class time needed at the start, they can find lots of opportunities to meet their client. When the outcome starts 'officially' after U2O2 they get class time to properly start producing the product (usually a website - I'd hate to inflict my kids' programming skills on a real client, unless the client really needed an application wherein a pig wiggled its ears...)<br><br>I like the outcome: it's an interesting change for the kids to go on unsupervised excursions and feel the pressure of actually getting their work go live and be accountable for it. It's good to see the outcome return in the new study design.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 6 September 2010 23:56, George Ciotti <<a href="mailto:ciotti.george.w@edumail.vic.gov.au">ciotti.george.w@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>You mean real “hypothetical” client? Like you mean real “prototype” website? Obviously you have to do what is realistically possible within the demands of the SAC and the conditions you find yourself in within a school. I have chosen the school canteen as the client this year. Yet it does present problems similar to the Virtual Teams SAC in ITA.<br>It would be a lot easier to access a “real client” if there was more time to prepare for and complete the SAC. Given that one is competing with numerous other curricular and extra curricular activities that pull students in and out of classes on a consistent basis, it is a juggling act. For a collaboratively based activity it can be a minefield. At least that is my experience so far. Eight to 10 periods does not a comfortable environment make. Hence, real clients can become simulated/hypothetical clients. And in reality what is wrong with that approach? Doesn’t it happen most of the time in schools? I think one has to be careful in suggesting that real learning only takes place by solving authentic problems and attaching these authentic problems to real, living breathing “normal?” people. Learning can, and does, take place in a variety of settings. Solving authentic (or non-authentic – what is the difference in this context?) problems within a simulated environment, I would argue, can be just as valid and in some cases even more so given the control you have over the learning environment. The notion of authenticity is also arguable here because the “real” client is doing the student a favour and this is well known by the student from the outset. In real life, with real clients the timelines for solving problems are much longer than what we could ever hope to give our students. I agree that it should be within the spirit, as this allows for a variety of approaches.<br><br>Cheers<br>George<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><br><br><br><br><br>On 9/6/10 8:30 PM, "Christophersen, Paula P" <<a href="http://christophersen.paula.p@edumail.vic.gov.au" target="_blank">christophersen.paula.p@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I would like to support Mark's comments. The requirement is that it is a real client, and this is very important, as solving authentic problems supports real learning. While not preferable, the client can be a person from the school, but it should not be you, the teacher. <br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards<br>Paula</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="http://itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> on behalf of Mark KELLY<br><b>Sent:</b> Mon 6/09/2010 8:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 2 Outcome 3.<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>The spirit is that it is a real outside person. In desperation, I have used teachers as clients in the past, but it's still very much an insulated environment with supportive and comfortable people being your boss. They need to learn with <i>normal</i> people, not teachers ;-)<br><br>I tell them early in the year to start finding clients - the shock of dealing with people in the real-world is a valuable experience.<br><br>On 2 September 2010 19:24, Robert Koren <<a href="http://robert.koren@overnewton.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">robert.koren@overnewton.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Folks,<br> <br>Trying to get my head around some of the new study design for IT and I wanted to know how to interpret “client” in Unit 2 Outcome 3. Can I as a teacher simulate a client with my students issued a case study to complete for their projects or do I have to go out and find clients that my students report to?<br> <br>When I read it I feel I am supposed to have a real world example and I am going to find it hard to find projects with real world clients.<br> <br>Your thoughts??<br> <br>Regards,<br> <br>Robert Koren <br><span style='color:lime'>Head of Pasteur House<br></span>Head of IT Faculty 9 - 12<br>Overnewton Anglican Community College<br>Telephone: (03) 9334 0031<br>Email: <a href="http://robert.koren@overnewton.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">robert.koren@overnewton.vic.edu.au</a><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>A dual campus, coeducational Prep to Year 12 school. Delivering consistently high academic results in Melbourne's North West for over 23 years.<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#000066'><a href="http://www.overnewton.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">www.overnewton.vic.edu.au</a> <<a href="http://www.overnewton.vic.edu.au/" target="_blank">http://www.overnewton.vic.edu.au/</a>> <br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F'>Keilor Campus</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F'> </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 2-30 Overnewton Road Keilor, Victoria, 3036 </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <b><span style='color:#7F7F7F'>T</span></b> 03 9334 0000 </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <b><span style='color:#7F7F7F'>F</span></b> 03 9336 1835 <br><b><span style='color:#7F7F7F'>Taylors Lakes Campus</span></b> </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 39 - 57 Robertsons Road Taylors Lakes, Victoria, 3038 </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <b><span style='color:#7F7F7F'>T</span></b> 03 9334 0000 </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <b><span style='color:#7F7F7F'>F</span></b> 03 9390 5144 <br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F'>2010 College Theme</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><b><i><span style='font-size:24.0pt'>Walk in another's shoes</span></i></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>I</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><b><i>Consider the environment before choosing to print this email.</i> <br></b><br>_______________________________________________<br><a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> <<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au/" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au/</a>> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br><a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> <<a href="http://www.vitta.org.au/" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au/</a>> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>--><br>The University High School<br>77 Story Street, Parkville, Vic, 3052, Australia<br>Ph: (03) 9347 2022<br>mobile: 0412934782</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p><b>Important - </b>This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br><a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html" target="_blank">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br><a href="http://www.vitta.org.au" target="_blank">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Mark Kelly<br>Information Systems Manager; Reporting Manager<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085<br>School Phone +613 8520 9000, Fax +613 9578 9253<br><a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au" target="_blank">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>VCE IT Lecture notes: <a href="http://vceit.com" target="_blank">http://vceit.com</a><br>Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List<br><br>Korma: the philosophy that what you get out of a curry depends on what you put into it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p></p><p><b>Important - </b>This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.</p>
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