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<title>RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So here now is my 2c!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Everyone has their own preferred packages. There are
similar discussions to this one on the SD lists from time to time – and
the reality is – there is no right answer. I personally use VB.Net
and C# - but I have nothing negative to say about any of the other programming languages
that are approved for study. I do however, get my back up when others say
that I shouldn’t be teaching VB.Net or C# for this reason or that.
For this reason, this sort of comment is not constructive at all. It’s
certainly fine in my view to debate the pros and cons of different packages –
but we each make a professional judgement to use software packages and this
should be respected.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ultimately it is my view that it doesn’t really matter
what SOFTWARE we teach – it is the skills and techniques that provide our
students with the ability to adapt to the packages that they will be using in
5, 10, 15+ years. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:#002060'>Adrian
Janson </span></b><b><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#002060'>B.Sc, Dip.Ed,
M.Ed<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>VITTA President<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>Director of
ICT<br>
</span></b><span style='color:#244061'>Melbourne High School, Forrest Hill,
South Yarra, Victoria 3141 Australia.<br>
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711<br>
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767<br>
E-mail: </span><span style='color:blue'><a
href="mailto:vanessa.brotto@deakin.edu.au">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>
<br>
</span><span style='color:#244061'>Website: <a
href="http://www.deakin.edu.au/hmnbs/nursing">http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au</a><u><o:p></o:p></u></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#244061'>Blog: <a
href="http://jansona.edublogs.org/">http://jansona.edublogs.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='color:#244061'><o:p><span style='text-decoration:
none'> </span></o:p></span></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au
[mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Townsley, Andrew A<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 5 May 2010 12:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>OK well enough said on this topic. I cant
make sense of some of these replies and it is just turning into an argument. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>A.Townsley</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Fountain Gate SC</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf
of Cameron Bell</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Wed 5/05/2010 8:32 AM</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing
List</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Andrew, you can't go saying things like that. It
blows our whole "industry standard" argument out of the water! How
can my Yr 7's expect to get a job in 15 years time without access to the latest
you-beaut , enterprise-grade, encryption enabled, cloud-ready package if
I can't play with it myself and then teach them?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I can't believe this heresy!</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Next you'll be telling me that we could teach
ICT with FLOSS only!</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Cameron</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:P ;)</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>On 04/05/2010, at 1:42 PM, Townsley, Andrew A
wrote:</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Hi,</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> My issue was we shouldnt be teaching how to
use an application package but teach skills instead. Skills can be transferred
across packages and this make more educational sense.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> A.Townsley</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Fountain Gate SC</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> -----Original Message----- </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> From: itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au on
behalf of Bane, Janet A </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Sent: Sat 1/05/2010 4:05 PM </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers'
Mailing List </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302 </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Hi all, </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> When I said "I hope this will be a
useful resource for others, and if you have comments/suggestions/tips about
Expression Web that you want to share I, for one, would be most grateful"
- this wasn't quite what I meant! I think you are all missing the point
here. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> The point is that there are many different
packages out there which people use to do Outcome 2. The web
authoring/virtual team SAC continues in the next study design as well. I
don't want to debate the merits of each type of software. (my software is
better than your software....no it isn't.....yes it is..... - its all pretty
childish if you ask me!). In most schools you "get what you're
given", and in my case, Expression Web is what I was given to work with. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> All I was trying to do was to provide a
resource for others who may also be using Expression Web and would like
some guidance (as there is nothing out there). Just do a search
through the vitta resources with the word "expression web" and see
how many you get. As far as EW itself is concerned, I have
only scratched the surface, but can see there are a lot of innovations and
improvements over Front Page. It is quite suitable for high school
student level and as Mark K has stated, the aim of the SAC is not to turn out
ready-made web designers, but students who have a good working knowledge of how
a virtual team works. They don't need to get too technical. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Finally, you may be surprised to know
that many schools are using Expression Web, Dreamweaver or even the old
Front Page. If you are in a Govt School, it is likely that you are
using MS products (FP or EW) and therefore resources such as mine are probably
of interest. For those that aren't, perhaps you would like to upload some
of the ones you have developed, Andrew, so we can share some of your expertise
as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> regards </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Janet Bane </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Patterson River SC</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> _____ </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> From: itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au on
behalf of Townsley, Andrew A </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Sent: Fri 30-Apr-10 5:34 PM </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers'
Mailing List </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Hi,</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> I really wouldnt bother with expression web
or dreamweaver IMHO. </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> IT isnt a professional product like
VWD which you can easily add interactive content and it is free. </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> This will teach actually skills that some
students can extend their learning on.</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Next best would be PHP. YOu dont need to
code interactive stuff but this will cater for all learners.</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> A.Townsley </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Fountain Gate SC</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> -----Original Message----- </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> From: itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au on
behalf of Bane, Janet A </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Sent: Fri 30/04/2010 4:24 PM </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers'
Mailing List </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302 </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Hi all </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> I have been dragged (kicking and
screaming), into the wonderful world of Expression Web. Our technicians
took away Front Page when we upgraded to Windows 7.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> The first thing I found out was that there
are very few good resources out there, and even fewer people who could actually
show/tell me what to do. Lots of stuff had changed (or maybe it
hadn't, I just couldn't find it). SO .... after lots of tense
moments, I have come up with a set of notes, written for Expression Web users,
based on the notes I did earlier for Front Page. It follows the
development of the website for Fast Feet, which I'm sure most people are
familiar with, if they have the VITTA CD for the current study design. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> It is now available on the VITTA site,
under the title: Fast feet with Expression web. </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> It goes through the steps involved in
creating and developing the website for Fast Feet. It contains Home,
Management, Production, Customer and Bulletin Board pages and a Staff login
page as well as some theory questions along the way. The customer page is
optional as the website is for the virtual team, however I include it to show
students how to use form elements. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> I hope this will be a useful resource for
others, and if you have comments/suggestions/tips about Expression Web that you
want to share I, for one, would be most grateful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> regards </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Janet Bane </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Patterson River SC</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> _____ </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> From: itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au on
behalf of Mark KELLY </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Sent: Thu 29-Apr-10 8:25 AM </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers'
Mailing List </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Townsley,
Andrew A <townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Hi,</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Reading the Study Design for unit 302 I am
seeing that students need to create a website with 'non-functional' interactive
content for a virtual team. Also they need to evaluate it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> 1)If my students know how to make websites
already then what new skills do I need to teach them for this?</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> The webmaking skills are pretty modest, so
not a lot of training may be required. That's why I do U3O2 as the first
outcome. What the kids do need to know is the needs of a virtual team and
how they can be satisfied with a website. That's really what is being
assessed (as well as the basic networking knowledge required.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Their site has to demonstrate an ability to
help a vt share information and make decisions, and the kids have to
demonstrate appropriate tools to achieve those ends (e.g. chat, wiki, forum,
shared calendar, security [e.g. a simulated login page to their site], file
exchange, team contacts etc).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Since most of these tools will have to be
simulated because of the restrictions in a classroom environment, their image
editing skills will need to be developed so they can doctor screenshots of such
tools in action.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> I can add interactive content with VS2008
VWD ( I hope people are using this or PHP and not dreamweaver/frontpage). </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> The example SAC's I saw didn't really
expand on basic web site building skills.</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Don't get distracted by spending huge
efforts trying to make functional sites: that is not really the point of the
outcome. It's about the needs of virtual teams. Software
Development is the arena for cracking open VS2008...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> A.Townsley </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> townsley.andrew.a@edumail.vic.gov.au </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Fountain Gate SC</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span><br>
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<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> -- </span><br>
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