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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2">What's this a flame war and I missed it completely.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">The price of being on holidays in Paris I suppose.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">These bloody keyboards take a bit of getting used to, the keys are all over the place.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Mark Scott</div>
<div dir="ltr">Luther College</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">PS Did I mention I have gone over to the darkside and now have a iPhone. (hee hee)</div>
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<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY [kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 29, 2010 4:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT Apps study design<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>Ah, I haven't seen a <i>really</i> good flame war since my dark and evil Usenet days and the infamous bunfight about Derek Smart (<i>Battlecruiser 3000AD)</i>...<br>
<br>
My, that <b>defined</b> flame war!<br>
<br>
It still lingers today: <a href="http://follies.werewolves.org" target="_blank">http://follies.werewolves.org</a><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Timmer-Arends <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:timmer@melbpc.org.au">timmer@melbpc.org.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><a href="http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><a href="http://www.writewithtaste.com/blog/tone_problems_in_emails.html" target="_blank">http://www.writewithtaste.com/blog/tone_problems_in_emails.html</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Regards</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Robert T-A</font></div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div class="im">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial"><b>From:</b> <a title="kevork@edulists.com.au" href="mailto:kevork@edulists.com.au">
Kevork Krozian</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="itapps@edulists.com.au" href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">
Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List</a> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:51 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT Apps study design</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Hi Folks,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">It is great advice you give Mark when a controversial email is about to be sent to just let it sit and gather some dust before actually posting. I know I have regretted certain emails I have written in the past and have tried
to correct them to no avail. One in particular caused the accused to be further isolated off line by those who chose one side and continued the attack. When I apologised for the original post and asked the accused to come back - they had chosen to leave the lists upon
my not so subtle advice .... - I was asked to take up the fight against those who had continued the attack off line. So messy , so unfortunate, so unnecessary. I wish I could turn back the clock ... but alas.
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">On a more general point, it is of concern to me that we simply don't get enough of our lurkers to join in our discussions. Latest census shows 471 itapps subscribers. Could it be that they know it all and don't need to ask
anything ? Or more ominously could it be that they are afraid they might be shot down if they make a comment ? Anecdotally, I do hear that some feel their work may not be up to the standard they think is on these discussions and hence do not join in. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I am working on acquiring sponsorship to recognise contributions and participation on these lists ( I did think the support and professional satisfaction was enough but maybe not, for many ).
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I am looking at a 1st , 2nd and 3rd placement for volume of contributions and support of others over a school year</font> <font face="Arial" size="2">along the lines of a substantial gift for those who help others - a laptop,
a powerful mobile device, etc are my preferences.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">While I work on the sponsorship front, I want to congratulate Roland, Adrian, Robert, Mark and others for their professional handling of this thread. As Roland said we couldn't see the body language when he was typing and as
Adrian mentioned, it took a long, long time to bring together this Study Design that was not so visible to many and the steering committee was of the view every opportunity was afforded for input. The solution to all our woes lies in open honest communication.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Ahhh, first Sunday of our holidays , and we are here working and fighting for the cause. It that a form of the Stockholm/Helsinki syndrome in action ??</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Sending this after waiting the requisite 60 mins in the Drafts folder following Mark's wise words.
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Warm Regards</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div>Kevork Krozian<br>
<a href="mailto:kevork@edulists.com.au">kevork@edulists.com.au</a><br>
<a href="http://www.edulists.com.au" target="_blank">www.edulists.com.au</a><br>
Tel: 0419 356 034</div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial"><b>From:</b> <a title="rgesthuizen@gmail.com" href="mailto:rgesthuizen@gmail.com">
Roland Gesthuizen</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="itapps@edulists.com.au" href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">
Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 28, 2010 6:23 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] IT Apps study design</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Adrian and I get on well off-list so this is nothing personal. I apologize if I have offended anybody with a cavalier quip that I'll admit was casually tacked onto my post without thinking. I'll admit exhaustion and complacency, regretting that I ever hinted
an ability to do the interim school reports. It has been good to see this list gain some fire and traction again.
<br>
<br>
Robert does raise an interesting point that we need to be careful with what voice we speak with, especially from our signature tags. I don't think that Adrian was writing on behalf of VITTA as President and I wasn't writing on behalf of my school. He is quite
justified to defend the study design team reputation. I guess for this reason, I have been adding a disclaimer to the bottom of my messages so that I am not giving undue authority to my words or posts.
<br>
<br>
Regards Roland<br>
<br>
Disclaimer: The views in this e-mail are entirely my own. I'll shout a beverage with anybody that meets up with me next week at the national conference and indicates they are from the study design team. :-)<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 28 March 2010 16:34, Janson, Adrian A <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au">janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">Hi Robert and others,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Robert - you raise a good point - my language was a little strong and for that I do apologise (and also would have been better off-list). I want to categorically state that feedback and discussion is very important and I (personally)
want to encourage that as much as I possibly can. Discussion of the study design only furthers all of our understanding of it.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">It's just that it frustrates me when comments like this are made off the cuff without the right basis. I also think that discussion should be phrased in the right way - positively - rather than negatively. That is, 'I notice
that cloud computing is in the study but I am not sure what the context is? Can someone clarify this for me?'. This would be a fair way to start the discussion rather than saying that there is an omission and implying that no research was done into the topic.
I think that there are some dangers in taking summary documents (such as the one that Mark Kelly has created) and using these are a basis for understanding of the study. The study needs to be read in the context of the key knowledge and key skills - Mark's
summary is a great tool and should serve as a start only.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I think I am a little sensitive to this knowing how much work has gone into the study and the efforts that VCAA have gone to to involve everyone in the process. The study design is really looking exciting - I can't wait to
teach it!</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Cheers,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Adrian</font></div>
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<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
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<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Mark Kelly<br>
Manager - Information Systems<br>
McKinnon Secondary College<br>
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085<br>
School Phone +613 8520 9000<br>
School Fax +613 9578 9253<br>
<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a><br>
<br>
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