<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><style>p { margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><style>p { margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font size="2">Roland and Ross - <br><br>While I wholeheartedly agree that CMSes such as Joomla and Drupal are very handy tools for rapidly developing powerful systems, I wouldn't go to the extreme of saying that tools such as Dreamweaver are going to be left for dead. (As a web developer, I must admit I left Frontpage for dead a long time ago. But that's me). <br><br>Firstly, there are many situations in which a CMS-style framework is inappropriate for a given task. Extremely simple web pages, unusual page layouts, and sites with extensive requirements above and beyond what can be provided with out-of-the box CMSes spring to mind. In these scenarios, having the knowledge to attack webpage design from the ground up may well be crucial to solve the problem - at the very least, it will make a developer aware of the options available to them and prevent a 'slap-a-CMS-together' mentality which can, from experience, lead to hour upon upon spent on customising layout templates, hacking away at plugin code, and wading through feature-dense administration screens to perform simple tasks. The ability to develop a website from scratch using rapid development tools such as Dreamweaver is useful when looking at alternative solutions.<br><br>Secondly, I'd emphasise the importance of knowing the fundamentals of web design and development. I'd liken it to mathematics: students are taught the fundamentals of algebra and calculus, even though in the practical world we all whip out graphics calculators. The underlying fundamentals of web design are important in understanding how CMSes work, why they work in certain ways, and how they can be improved. If you try to work out XHTML layout or AJAX by jumping into the source code for Joomla or Drupal you're making things much harder for yourself than by building simple pages from scratch.<br><br>So, while I would absolutely encourage the inclusion of CMSes such as Joomla and Drupal in a curriculum, I would suggests to teachers who are using Frontpage and Dreamweaver as teaching tools to continue to do so (well, if you're using Frontpage, consider switching to Dreamweaver). By all means introduce CMSes as a great way to rapidly develop powerful and customisable data-driven sites, but don't do so at the expense of ignoring the basic skills of hand-coded XHTML and page design in a WYSIWYG editor.<br><br>My two cents as someone with experience in industry developing content-driven sites using both CMS and custom systems. :)<br><br>Cheers,<br></font><br><div><font size="2"><br>--- <br>Gavin Ballard<br>VITTA Project Officer<br>T: +61 3 9495 6836<br>F: +61 3 9495 6834<br>M: +61(0) 415 844 117<br>E: gavin<span class="Object" id="OBJ_PREFIX_DWT824"><span class="Object" id="OBJ_PREFIX_DWT825">@vitta.org.au</span></span><br>W: <span class="Object" id="OBJ_PREFIX_DWT826"><span class="Object" id="OBJ_PREFIX_DWT827"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.vitta.org.au/">http://www.vitta.org.au</a></span></span><br>Suite 209, 134-136 Cambridge St,<br>Collingwood, VIC, 3066, Australia</font></div><br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "Ross Algie" <ralgie@mcmedia.com.au><br>To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List" <itapps@edulists.com.au><br>Sent: Friday, 3 April, 2009 9:52:28 AM (GMT+1000) Auto-Detected<br>Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Static Web sites<br><br>As part of its review of the new Adobe Dreamweaver a month or so back, PC <br>Pro magazine (an English publication) noted that no matter how well <br>companies like Adobe dressed up traditional web apps such as Dreamweaver, <br>their days are effectively over simply because they cannot compete with <br>content management systems. Drupal was cited as one of the growing number of <br>compelling alternatives. No doubt schools here will continue to persevere <br>with Frontpage and Dreamweaver because the alternatives will be too <br>difficult to organise within current structures.<br>While on the one hand we're encouraged to join the digital revolution, <br>central policies and practices are in fact antithetical to this. <br><br>Cheers<br>Ross Algie<br>Mooroopna Secondary College <br><br>Roland Gesthuizen writes: <br><br>> Yes, they cracked a huge wobbly here. Am just recovering from the huge punch<br>> up that resulted and only called timeout by rolling back to FrontPage. We<br>> will now instead migrate to our Drupal server. Once I finish dressing it up<br>> and get some staff trained, this will go live.<br>> http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au --><br>> http://drupal.westallsc.vic.edu.au(draft) <br>> <br>> Interesting thought .. one of my more learned colleagues suggested that as<br>> many organisations are now using various flavours of content management<br>> systems to publish their resources, perhaps building large and integrated<br>> website with tools like Web Expressions, Dream Weaver etc is now of<br>> accademic value only. It makes as much sense as building a car by hand with<br>> a mechano set when you can subcontract the work to a mechanised auto plant. <br>> <br>> Regards Roland <br>> <br>> PS: There are some excellent drupal training courses running in Melbourne. I<br>> am happy to cross post some details. <br>> <br>> 2009/4/2 Toet, Rikki L <toet.rikki.l@edumail.vic.gov.au> <br>> <br>>> Hi Kent, <br>>><br>>> From what I’ve seen of Web Expressions it is similar to MS FrontPage, but<br>>> allows you to do more complex things. For example, I caught one of the very<br>>> bright students using it to create a proxy server so he can bypass all of<br>>> the school server settings. On the other hand, it doesn’t have the simple<br>>> things, such as navigation view. <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> The rest of the IT staff here have complained about it as all of their<br>>> resources are for FrontPage. We are in the process of trying to get it back<br>>> on the network. <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> Hope this helps <br>>><br>>> Rikki <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> *From:* itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:<br>>> itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Kent Beveridge<br>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 April 2009 8:50 AM<br>>> *To:* Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 3 O2 Resources <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> Hi Rikki, <br>>><br>>> can you give us some feedback about 'expressions' easy to use, easy to<br>>> teach,...easy to LEARN? I am considering getting it here for next year. <br>>><br>>> cheers, <br>>><br>>> Kent. <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> ps..combined class eh? personally, I find that challenging..been there! <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> *Kent Beveridge**,* <br>>><br>>> *I.C.T. co-ordinator* <br>>><br>>> *St. Brigids Catholic Sec. College* <br>>><br>>> * **http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au/* <http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au/> <br>>><br>>> *Horsham **Ph (03) 5382 3545* <br>>><br>>> *kbeveridge@stbc.vic.edu.au* <br>>><br>>> *“This email and any attachments may be confidential. You must not<br>>> disclose or use the information in this email if you are not the intended<br>>> recipient. If you have received this email in error, please notify us<br>>> immediately and delete the email and all copies. The School does not<br>>> guarantee that this email is virus or error free. The attached files are<br>>> provided and my only be used on the basis that the user assumes all<br>>> responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or<br>>> indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the<br>>> negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this email are<br>>> not necessarily those of the School.”* <br>>><br>>><br>>> ------------------------------ <br>>><br>>> *From:* itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au on behalf of Toet, Rikki L<br>>> *Sent:* Wed 4/1/2009 2:59 PM<br>>> *To:* Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>>> *Subject:* [Year 12 IT Apps] Unit 3 O2 Resources <br>>><br>>> Hi all, <br>>><br>>> I am currently teaching at Grovedale College and this year is my first<br>>> time teaching IT Apps and 11 IT (It is a combined class so I started<br>>> with Outcome 2 for Unit 1). I will be starting U3O2 and U1O1 after the<br>>> holidays and we have just changed from MS FrontPage to Web Expressions<br>>> 2. Due to this, I have next to nothing in the way of resources. Can<br>>> anyone help me out with exercises, worksheets, SACs, etc. or even advice<br>>> on what to do and where I can get resources from. <br>>><br>>> Kind regards <br>>><br>>> Rikki Toet<br>>> Grovedale College<br>>> Wingarra Drv. Grovedale 3216, Vic, Australia<br>>> School Ph. +613 5245 4545 <br>>><br>>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received<br>>> in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using<br>>> attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,<br>>> damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or<br>>> not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our<br>>> liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any<br>>> representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,<br>>> and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood<br>>> Development. <br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -<br>>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers<br>>> Association Inc <br>>><br>>> *Important - *This email and any attachments may be confidential. If<br>>> received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening<br>>> or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any<br>>> loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender<br>>> or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files<br>>> our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any<br>>> representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,<br>>> and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood<br>>> Development.<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/infotechindex.html<br>>> <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html> -<br>>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers<br>>> Association Inc <br>>><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College<br>> http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au <br>> <br>> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change<br>> the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead<br> <br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by<br>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<br></div></div></div></body></html>