(blush) .. goes back to hiding under a rock.<br><br>Regards Roland<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/12/8 Ros Meadows <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ros.meadows@gmail.com">ros.meadows@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000066">
<font face="Calibri">I am sorry if I started a bonfire!<br>
>From reading everyone's posts, there are obviously very varying
opinions.<br>
<br>
Ultimately you only need to look at what Roland has achieved at
Westall, in a school which is not rich (in monetary terms), and must
deal with the same security issues as the rest of us. Yet given the
opportunity to adopt a new idea, application or online website, Roland
does not question with "Will this work? "What is the educational value
of this?" "Will this compromise the security of my system?" or "will
this be adopted by students and/or staff?"<br>
<br>
No, he thinks "that would be cool" and therefore dives headfirst into
the latest and greatest "stuff" on offer, giving his students and staff
choices in what operating system, software, search engine and online
apps they use.<br>
<br>
I admire and envy you so much Roland - you create more educational
opportunities for your students by giving them more options, than other
schools who have so many more (financial) resources.<br>
<br>
Someone said to me at the conference 'Microsoft, the drug dealers of
the software kingdom - "your first hit is on us kiddies"' - and so our
kids pirate MS software so they can have it at home, because they think
they need it, but can't afford it - not good! Show them there are legal
and free alternatives such as Google docs or Open Office and they won't
be guilty of software piracy!!<br>
<br>
Cheers<br><font color="#888888">
Ros<br>
</font></font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
Timmer-Arends wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">>However
in schools this was not always the case - individual teachers and other
staff seemed to believe that their individual views represented that of
the entire school, and IT staff were pulled in all directions, often
contradictory, After unblocking one website for one staff member,
they'd get another complaining that their kids could now waste time on
that same website. After installing some piece of software based on one
request, theyd have someone else asking him why staff were being
confused with multiple offerings. You can probably see his dilemma.</font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">>His view that he was paid by the
school to meet the school's needs - but the school's needs were not
always clearly defined</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>>He commented that in some schools the IT support people
ended up taking the lead because there seemed to be nobody else willing
to manage a process that reached a school-level view on priority and
strategy. He thought this was a dangerous situation. </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Ken, has your IT technical manager
been speaking to our IT technical manager? One of the biggest
frustrations our guy has is that he feels he is there to serve the
needs of the school community, but that the said community doesn't seem
to have a clue where it wants to go with all this IT staff. And that is
a curriculum issue, not an IT issue.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">It sounds to me like Royce is taking
a tough but perfectly understandable line on all this. Not wishing to
put words into his mouth, but something like "show me the evidence that
this will improve student learning, get the school to agree with you,
and then come see me with your proposal"</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Regards</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Robert T-A</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="kenjprice@gmail.com" href="mailto:kenjprice@gmail.com" target="_blank">ken price</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="itapps@edulists.com.au" href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au" target="_blank">Year 12 IT Applications Teachers'
Mailing List</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, December 08, 2008 10:05 AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RE: Google docs issue</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree, the analysis of how IT meets organisational needs is
valid as it is part of the course.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'll tell a short tale of a very skilled IT technical manager
at a school where I taught. He had spent several years working
for large national organisations as IT manager. He was (and still is)
very keen to make IT work for the school in the best possible way. He
is a very valuable school IT manager.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>After a few months working at the school he made an
interesting observation about schools vs his past employer which might
be relevant here.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>He noticed that in the large organisations, there was strong
governance over ICT decisions and investment. Decisions were
made/endorsed by senior management based on needs and suggestions put
forward by all staff (including IT support). It was thus very clear
what the organisation wanted in terms of ICT. However in schools this
was not always the case - individual teachers and other staff seemed to
believe that their individual views represented that of the entire
school, and IT staff were pulled in all directions, often
contradictory, After unblocking one website for one staff member,
they'd get another complaining that their kids could now waste time on
that same website. After installing some piece of software based on one
request, theyd have someone else asking him why staff were being
confused with multiple offerings. You can probably see his dilemma.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>His view that he was paid by the school to meet the school's
needs - but the school's needs were not always clearly defined. He felt
that if staff in most large organisations directly approached their IT
support unit demanding their own way, they'd be referred very quickly
to the IT decision-making committee. If they did it more than once,
things would get serious for them. Similarly, he saw that if his IT
support staff ignored the priorities set by the organisation and did
whatever they thought was a good idea or interesting, their job would
be in jeopardy.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>He commented that in some schools the IT support people ended
up taking the lead because there seemed to be nobody else willing to
manage a process that reached a school-level view on priority and
strategy. He thought this was a dangerous situation. It relates
directly to Anne's quote from the Unit3 syllabus.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So perhaps there is another issue here - the nature of schools
and how they reach decisions on how they want to use IT,innovate, etc,
and how these decisions are informed by educational and technical
issues?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The IT manager was unsure if schools are inherently different
to other large organisations, or if there is something else here. I
haven't spoken to him for some time, so I'll get in touch and see what
his views are now,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Perhaps we can get some examples of how schools manage this
school-level decision making and how it translates into the work that
"techies" do? Perhaps they would be useful as case studies for
students?</div>
<div><br>
Ken Price
<div>DoE Tasmania</div>
<div>President, TASITE <a href="http://www.tasite.edu.au/" target="_blank">www.tasite.edu.au</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:10 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:murch@tpg.com.au" target="_blank">murch@tpg.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">This
discussion may have gone on long enough but I would like to argue that
it is not inappropriate to<br>
this list or OT as it embraces the very nature of the ITA course. From
the summary of the VCAA course<br>
design.<br>
"Unit 3 focuses on how individuals or organisations use ICT to solve
information problems. This unit<br>
focuses on how ICT is used by organisations to solve ongoing
information problems and in the<br>
strategies to protect the integrity of data and security of
information."<br>
I think that this is a realistic problem that teachers and technicians
on the list are looking at and are<br>
discussing. It is one that will be used for my students next year as
they will see the relevance of such a<br>
problem as it pertains to their education. It has been interesting to
hear the opinions of the various<br>
people involved in organisations - technicians, educationalists etc And
best of all, here is a virtual team<br>
in action trying to solve the problem.<br>
So thank you to everyone, and I in no way meant to be an egotistical
contributor, simply someone<br>
seeking a solution.<br>
<div>Anne Mirtschin<br>
Hawkesdale P12 College<br>
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</blockquote>
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</div></div><div>-- <br>
<span><span><div class="Ih2E3d">Roslyn Meadows
<br>
<span>TONS</span><br>
<a href="mailto:ros.meadows@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>ros.meadows@gmail.com</span></a>
<br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d"><span>Bentleigh Secondary College
<br>
Vivien Street,
East Bentleigh, 3165
<br>
Phone 9579 1044<br>
Mobile 0412 614 062</span></div></span></span>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College<br><a href="http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au">http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au</a><br><br>"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead<br>