G'day and thanks Mark, <br><br>as it is a public tender process I can only suppose that we are allowed to crack our whips and shout at the bull threatening to jump out of its horse pen and into my classroom. You are right of course, we don't know too much about UltaNet short of it probably being a very ambitious, expensive, multi-functional space shuttle / magic school bus that has been assembled by tender to a single major corporation.
<br><br>10 years ago, hotdog and notepad were cool for web editing. Oddly enough, back then an argument could have been constructed to pour money into building a government owned HTML editor, buying out "hotdog" type solution or later a web server. It is now even harder to predict the ICT outcomes or pressure points for the next 10 years. There is a detailed analysis of projected technological developments
and their social, political and economic implications in this report about a projected vision of the Web in the year 2020. Many pages and worth reading the conclusions.<br><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><a href="http://www.sirc.org/publik/web2020.shtml">
http://www.sirc.org/publik/web2020.shtml</a><br></div><br>When DE&T are talking about these huge sums of money per tax payer, they absolutely must get it right.<br><br>There is no excuse for not running trials like the one at your school, soliciting feedback from interest groups, undertaking some solid research before forging ahead with plans. Sadly, obsolescence is something we come to expect from government IT initiatives. Anything that ignores the good work by pioneers, anything less than open decisions based on public evidence and International open standards is adding fuel to the fires of suspicion and mistrust.
<br><br>When we publicly deliberate and reflect upon all our different
views, it probably also prevent us from being accidentally sat upon.<br>
<br>Regards Roland<br><br>PS: After a decade of writing grant after grant application, last year we finally secured one for an upgrade to our main toilet block. Ow joy! :-)<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 20/08/07,
<b class="gmail_sendername">Mark Kelly</b> <<a href="mailto:kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au">kel@mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I dread to say this, since I am usually The Cynical One Lambasting The<br>Establishment (TCOLTE), but...<br><br>Dare I suggest the motives of DE&T are less Machiavellian than you might<br>fear?<br><br>Could they even have genuinely altruistic motives?
<br><br>Yes, I was a part of the Ultranet trial, but that is not the reason I<br>say this.<br><br>For DE&T to actively counteract any motive force in a pre-emptive and<br>self-satisfying manner is to assume they have a motive for doing so...
<br>and when have they shown any signs of oppressing Moodlish installations<br>in schools?<br><br>Could it be that they are in fact trying to satisfy a need in schools<br>that some pioneers have already explored with Moodling, or equivalent?
<br><br>I'm not getting paid for this, but I'm holding off pre-emptive criticism<br>until I see the beast that's provided for me to ride.<br><br>Etc<br><br>Mark<br><br>Stephen Digby wrote:<br>> Yes.<br>> The current review of government school intranets is the first step in
<br>> the claw back of control of school IT.<br>> They are starting with requiring schools to document their networks and<br>> redesign them under a single blueprint.<br>> Under the guise of security they will then shut down "unsupported"
<br>> external access tools like moodle.<br>> To justify the ridiculous expenditure on UltraNet, they will require all<br>> schools to use it, thus making maintenance of other tools a costly<br>> duplication rather than an alternative.
<br>> Any deficiencies in the system will be met with either denial or more<br>> wasted investment....<br>><br>> Hear this before ?<br>><br>> Heard of "CASES" ?<br>><br>> ====================================================
<br>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager<br>> mailto: <a href="mailto:admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au">admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au">admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au</a>
><br>> Cheltenham Secondary College <a href="http://www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au">www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au</a><br>> <<a href="http://www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au/">http://www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au/</a>><br>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
<br>> ====================================================<br>> Too many of us look upon Americans as dollar chasers. This is a cruel<br>> libel, even if it is reiterated thoughtlessly by the Americans<br>> themselves. Albert Einstein
<br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> *From:* <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a><br>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">
itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Grimshaw<br>> *Sent:* Monday, 20 August 2007 3:27 PM<br>> *To:* Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>> *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] FW: Ultranet
<br>><br>> Am i silly to assume that we will be able run our moodels as well as the<br>> ultranet? - i cant think of any reason why we couldn't<br>><br>> andrew grimshaw<br>> colac college<br>><br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>> *From:* Roland Gesthuizen <mailto:<a href="mailto:rgesthuizen@gmail.com">rgesthuizen@gmail.com</a>><br>> *Newsgroups:* local.it.itapps<br>> *To:* Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
<br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps@edulists.com.au">itapps@edulists.com.au</a>><br>> *Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2007 1:37 PM<br>> *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] FW: Ultranet<br>><br>> Hmm, they didn't answer the $M60 question asked.
<br>><br>> Oddly enough, they invited Laurie to download the tender. Cute :-)<br>><br>> It would be an interesting to post a tender response.<br>><br>> A survey is nice, but I wonder at the depth and level of
<br>> consultation with the subject associations and professional groups<br>> already doing cool activities with tools such as Moodle. This is<br>> about teaching and learning, not just worksheets, software and
<br>> bandwidth. For now, we we can only speculate at the deeper<br>> educational pedagogy and research that underpins this centralist<br>> model for networked service delivery. Anybody who can predict the
<br>> world beyond 2017 is a fool. I'm certainly not holding my breath.<br>><br>> It is really great to see ALL the different learning tools we are<br>> all using and engaged by the exciting things that are happening.
<br>> Only last week, a new teacher was posted here a swag of ideas from<br>> MS Sharepoint users. Thats cool! There is a very real strength in<br>> our current diversity of tools, teaching styles and innovative
<br>> solutions, many in spite of poor funding or administrative hurdles.<br>> The VITTA annual conference is a celebration of these success<br>> stories by a community of practicing educators.<br>>
<br>> Should we be concerned about an all embracing, centralist model for<br>> networked service delivery for Victorian state schools? I suppose we<br>> could be proactive and engage with the tender process .. or keep on
<br>> doing the fun stuff that engages and teaches our students :-)<br>><br>> Regards Roland<br>><br>> On 20/08/07, *Laurie Savage* <<a href="mailto:sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au">sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au</a>
<br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au">sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au</a>>> wrote:<br>><br>> I emailed the Ultranet people, here is their reply.<br>><br>> Laurie<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----
<br>> From: Quach, Tam T [mailto:<a href="mailto:quach.tam.t@edumail.vic.gov.au">quach.tam.t@edumail.vic.gov.au</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:quach.tam.t@edumail.vic.gov.au">quach.tam.t@edumail.vic.gov.au
</a>>] On Behalf Of<br>> Ultranet<br>> Sent: Monday, 20 August 2007 9:28 AM<br>> To: <a href="mailto:sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au">sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au">
sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au</a>><br>> Subject: RE: Ultranet<br>><br>> Hi Laurie<br>><br>> Thank you for your enquiry of 17 August 2007 regarding the<br>> Ultranet.<br>><br>> The Department of Education is aware that some schools are using
<br>> learning<br>> management systems such as Moodle. Please refer to section<br>> 8.1.20 of the<br>> Request for Tender specifications below:<br>><br>> 8.1.20 Learning Management Systems
<br>> A few Victorian government schools have made investments in<br>> third party<br>> learning management solutions. Solutions include (but are not<br>> limited to)<br>> Edumate, My Classes, Scholaris, Studywiz, Moodle, Blackboard and
<br>> other<br>> custom developed intranet solutions. The solutions are<br>> implemented within<br>> schools' curriculum network environment. DoE is in the process<br>> of conducting
<br>> an extensive survey of existing applications in use at schools<br>> to assist in<br>> formulating the data conversion and change management strategies.<br>><br>> Learning management systems, however, are only one component of the
<br>> Ultranet. The other components include:<br>><br>> . Strategy<br>> . Learning and Teaching Management<br>> . Administration<br>> . Collaboration<br>> . Student Information
<br>> . Staff Information<br>> . School Information<br>> . Reporting<br>> . Productivity Tools<br>> . Architecture<br>> . Security<br>> . Standards
<br>> . Change Management<br>> . Development and Implementation<br>> . Service Hosting, Operational Support and Maintenance<br>><br>> The Ultranet Request for Tender was released publicly on 1
<br>> August 2007. You<br>> can the Ultranet RFT from the Victorian Government Tenders web<br>> site at<br>> <a href="http://www.tenders.vic.gov.au">www.tenders.vic.gov.au</a> <
<a href="http://www.tenders.vic.gov.au">http://www.tenders.vic.gov.au</a>>. Search<br>> for 'Ultranet'. You will need to register on<br>> the site in order to download the document.<br>>
<br>> I hope this answers your question.<br>><br>> Regards<br>> Tam Quach<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Laurie Savage [mailto:<a href="mailto:sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au">
sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au">sav@pvgc.vic.edu.au</a>>]<br>> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2007 3:35 PM<br>> To: Ultranet<br>> Subject: Ultranet
<br>><br>> We are already using a colloborative, intuitive e-learning<br>> system that is<br>> under constant development and improvement. We use it for VELS<br>> and VCE<br>
> cources. It is free, open source and can be tailored to local<br>> needs. It is<br>> written in PHP and uses a free backend database. It is called<br>> Moodle. Does<br>> the state need to spend $M60 to implement an untried alternative?
<br>><br>> Laurie Savage<br>> ICT/Comm. Tech. Teacher,<br>> Pascoe Vale Girls College<br>><br>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential.<br>> If received
<br>> in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before<br>> opening or using<br>> attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of<br>> any loss,<br>> damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the
<br>> sender or<br>> not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any<br>> attached files our<br>> liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any<br>
> representations or opinions expressed are those of the<br>> individual sender,<br>> and not necessarily those of the Department of Education.<br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________
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--<br>Mark Kelly<br>Manager - Information Systems<br>McKinnon Secondary College<br>McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia<br>Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085<br>School Phone +613 8520 9000<br>School Fax +613 95789253
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College<br><a href="http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au">http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au</a><br><br>"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead