Good point Cameron. I have my year 9 research science students play Greenia, a flash based game on the ABC website, another group I notice are playing a historical simulation of the gold rush. Other students are trying to program their own games. I am meeting up this lunchtime with another team that is trying to make their own version of a Tower Defence type game using GameMaker. More or less HOT (Highter Order Thinking) stuff.
<br><br>Play is a legitimate educational activity in the context of a structured curriculum. Free play is something we openly encourage and resource during recess and lunchtime (* looks out of window at handball and basketball game *). I will admit to running a computer games club but this is strictly done 'after school' on Friday that develops some valuable social and team skills.
<br><br>The librarian permits the social use of the Internet after hours so that International students can send e-mail messages home or catch up on overseas news. He admitted that the library is now a friendlier place with a cafe-club buzz including social readers (yes, they encourage book reading for sheer pleasure!)
<br><br>Regards Roland<br><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/08/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Cameron Bell</b> <<a href="mailto:bell.cameron.p@edumail.vic.gov.au">bell.cameron.p@edumail.vic.gov.au</a>> wrote:
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">No it isn't. A chess board is not designed to be a flying toy and that<br>is a a clearly inappropriate use. It comes down to what people accept as
<br>appropriate use. Computers are purpose built to communicate/play games<br>etc - that is what they are designed/adapted for. What it is coming down<br>to is the differences in what people think is "appropriate" use and what
<br>they define as an educational activity as opposed to "play". Would you<br>kick my Pre-Cal kids out if they were "playing" the essi-money game at<br>lunchtime? ( can *highly* recommend you look at that online game) This
<br>game has clearly engaged a group of kids who just don't want to be at<br>school. They are learning money and life skills - but many would kick<br>them out for playing a *game*. For the first time this year, I have had
<br>to order them to stop "working" and pack up!<br>There are many advantages that kids can get from using computers in all<br>manner of ways, not just research/ looking up the internet and word<br>processing. I would argue that the benefit a pre-cal kid gets from
<br>playing that game is as important as my physics student using the<br>computer to analyse a spreadsheet.<br>Cheers<br>Cameron<br><br><br>Stephen Digby wrote:<br>> Because....... They prevent other students from doing higher order educational activities on the limited
<br>> resource.<br>><br>> Exactly as if you had one group of students wanting to use the chess board as a Frisbee and another group<br>> wanting to use it to play chess.<br>><br>> ====================================================
<br>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager<br>> mailto: <a href="mailto:admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au">admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au</a><br>> Cheltenham Secondary College <a href="http://www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au">www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
</a><br>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028<br>> ====================================================<br>> I can levitate birds. No one cares Steven Wright<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----
<br>> From: <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of Meadows, Roslyn M<br>
> Sent: Friday, 10 August 2007 9:43 AM<br>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] OT: Computer rollover<br>><br>> Personally I don't see the hang up about playing games in the library at
<br>> lunchtime:<br>> - it is THEIR time<br>> - they can borrow backgammon, chess or a pack of cards in the library and play them at lunchtime, (often with<br>> much more noise) so why not a computer game from a USB Bar or one they have created?
<br>> - they are able to play games in the gym or on the oval at lunchtime - why not in the library?<br>><br>> But still - not allowed in OUR library :(<br>><br>> Roslyn Meadows<br>> Bentleigh Secondary College
<br>> 9579 1044<br>> 0412 614 062<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a><br>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">
itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of Cameron Bell<br>> Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2007 9:00 AM<br>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] OT: Computer rollover
<br>><br>> In the development of new curricula we are finding that the line between<br>><br>> personal/private use and "educational' use is getting so blurred as to be hopeless to distinguish between<br>
> them. Sometimes, even what many consider the most obvious transgression turns out to be justified. Kids<br>> playing computer games was a big big issue for some staff in our library<br>><br>> until we pointed out that they had actually created the games and were testing them on mates. To appease them
<br>> we opened up a lab for testing games to leave the library free for "traditional" study. ;) If kids can't use<br>> school computers for *occasional* private use, then I would feel an absolute hypocrite telling them to do
<br>> school work at home on the home computer. Wasting personal download time on study-related materials - goodness<br>> me.<br>><br>> Cheers<br>> Cameron<br>><br>> Stephen Digby wrote:<br>><br>>> The rationale for internet/ printing charges is also that the purposes
<br>>><br>> of use are not necessarily curriculum<br>><br>>> related and thus to allow open slather is to allow some students to<br>>><br>> use scarce resources for private use<br>><br>>> rather than educational use.
<br>>> There is even an equity argument to be made for educational use..<br>>> ====================================================<br>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager<br>>> mailto: <a href="mailto:admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au">
admin@cheltsec.vic.edu.au</a><br>>> Cheltenham Secondary College <a href="http://www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au">www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au</a><br>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028<br>>> ====================================================
<br>>> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour in only ten<br>>><br>> minutes. NOT a Steven Wright joke Rod<br>><br>>> Schmidt<br>>><br>>> -----Original Message-----
<br>>> From: <a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a><br>>><br>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au">itapps-bounces@edulists.com.au</a>] On Behalf Of Cameron Bell
<br>><br>>> Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2007 9:51 PM<br>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<br>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] OT: Computer rollover<br>>><br>>> Most schools do actually levy charges for other "addons", particularly
<br>>><br>> for practical / elective subjects, so<br>><br>>> user-pays isn't limited to Internet access.<br>>> Many of us do now view net access as an essential and indispensable<br>>><br>
> part of available educational resources,<br>><br>>> however this isn't always appreciated by those who haven't taught in<br>>><br>> the net age and now administer. They<br>><br>>> often only see it as a cost.
<br>>> I / we decided not to charge students for it when it became obvious<br>>><br>> that charging for access was hampering the<br>><br>>> delivery of the curriculum.<br>>> Cameron<br>>>
<br>>><br>>> Russell Edwards wrote:<br>>><br>>><br>>>> On 08/08/2007, at 5:51 PM, Brendyn Hancock wrote:<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>> My experience has been that recovering $$$ from student internet
<br>>>>> users has only ever been token. Its more that you are teaching them<br>>>>> responsible use of costly resources than it is a significant income.<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>
>>> I can see the reasoning behind the above... but on the other hand I<br>>>> don't see why schools are so fussed about their internet bills, nor<br>>>> why they advocate a user-pays system for the internet but nothing
<br>>>> else. The internet is more useful than the library in most subjects<br>>>> other than, perhaps, English. How much does the library cost to run<br>>>> per year? And, how much does IT support cost per year? People seem to
<br>>>><br>><br>><br>>>> stress out about internet bills < $10k/year. I would have thought in<br>>>> consideration of the amount spent on library and IT staff, the<br>>>> Internet would be worth having even at $100k/year. (And no, the
<br>>>> Education Channel doesn't count as "the Internet" in my view.) When<br>>>> you consider that the staffing costs overall for a school of 1000<br>>>> pupils must be in the millions of dollars per year, 10k is peanuts!!
<br>>>><br>>>> Am I missing something?<br>>>><br>>>> Russell<br>>>> Whittlesea SC<br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> <a href="http://www.edulists.com.au">
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College<br><a href="http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au">http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au</a><br><br>"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead