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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=robert@yinnar.com href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">Robert Hind</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=is@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:is@edulists.com.au">Year 12 Information Technology Systems
Teachers' Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Year 12 Its] New IS study design query</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Yes I have a long memory and did teach VCE "IT"
in it's first year. Not "Information Processing and Society" thank
goodness. As you say "HSC Computer Science it certainly is not".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sorry Royce, I would however query your definition of a
"good exam". It depends on the purpose of the exam.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>If you consider the present VCE exams, then yes they are
intended to spread students out and rank them in order of performance to produce
Uni entrance scores. "Norm referenced" assessment where you are interested in
comparing the students with each other.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>But if the exam is to determine the knowledge of road
laws, eg the Learners' Permit test, then this is a test of whether the examinee
knows the road laws or not, no ranking required, just that the examinee gets
enough questions correct and perhaps a fairly easy exam.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>On the other hand consider the testing of airline pilots.
Same thing as the learners' permit test, ie set skills and knowledge required,
ie "criterion referenced" for those who remember their work on assessment and
evaluation, but the standard required is very high.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>So there are different reasons for assessment and
evaluation and therefore different types of tests/exams are needed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Robert Hind (Semi-retired)<BR>Ex Traralgon and
Ashwood<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Royce.Williams@billanook.vic.edu.au
href="mailto:Royce.Williams@billanook.vic.edu.au">Royce Williams</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=is@edulists.com.au
href="mailto:is@edulists.com.au">Year 12 Information Technology Systems
Teachers' Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Year 12 Its] New IS study
design query</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250303603-16112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>actually .. a good exam must include questions that only a few will get
other wise there is no discrimination between scores at the high
end</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250303603-16112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250303603-16112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That
is for any exam .. not just one that is used for Uni entrance. Ranking of
students is important otherwise students have nothing to reward them for
either effort or Ability.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250303603-16112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250303603-16112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Also
without asking hard questions the subject will turn into Information
Processing and Society .. for those with long memories.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250303603-16112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250303603-16112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>HSC
Computer Science it Certainly is not </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=en-us><B><FONT face="Antique Olive" color=#008080 size=2>Royce
Williams</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Impact size=4>Round
Square BoardWalk Co</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Impact
size=4>"We keep your feet Dry"</FONT></SPAN> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
is-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:is-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B>On Behalf
Of </B>Andrew Shortell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 16 November 2006 1:09
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Year 12 Information Technology Systems Teachers' Mailing
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Year 12 Its] New IS study design
query<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi
Frank<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Past exams give you
what the examiners have asked over the years at an algorithm
level.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">All of the SACs are
statistically moderated against the exam.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The lack of depth
specified in the study design gives the examiners incredible scope to ask at
any level.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Then consider how
many students would answer it well. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Look carefully at
the examiners reports over the last twelve years. Look especially at the
success rate on the algorithm questions. Look at the questions
concerned.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Think carefully
about the point of asking a question where only a few percent of students
get above zero. The point of the exam is to spread students in to a long
line using the filter of the knowledge learnt in this subject so that they
can be given a study score and thus get put into a long line for uni
entrance. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cynical – yes ,
practical –yes <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The practice exams
with parameter passing – an attempt to lift the bar. ( I know, I wrote that
algorithm) <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Eventually we will
get to that stage. But first we have to educate the teachers and there are
teachers in this subject who are not confident teaching parameter passing,
linked lists, stacks, queues, LIFO, FIFO, multi d arrays. There is a
lot of PD that needs to be done before we can ask questions at that depth in
the exam.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Meanwhile I teach
all of those, make it interesting and for those students who are not up to
it I make very sure that they can do a bit more than the minimum that we
have seen on the exam. Their SAC results for u3o3 and u4o1 are not as good
as the programmer students but programming itself only makes up a small part
of those SACs. Most of the marks are in planning, documentation etc. The
programmer students hate those aspects and often leave them
out.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So it evens
up….<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(Off the soap box
and stagger off to lunch. I hate getting up at 4 a.m. to mark papers but it
is the only quiet time in the house)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=blue
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Andrew
Shortell</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on"><FONT
face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Braemar</SPAN></FONT></st1:PlaceName><FONT
face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">College</st1:PlaceType></SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
is-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:is-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Frank Van Den
Boom<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, 16
November 2006 10:29 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
is@edulists.com.au<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
FW: [Year 12 Its] New IS study design
query</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I was a bit
surprised to only get one response to the question below a couple of weeks
ago. Does that mean that nobody else finds this difficult to
judge?<BR>Imagine you were an experienced IT practioner and you came in to
teach this course with no prior knowledge of it and you were trying to
figure out what depth was required in programming. So you look at the
following :</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. Study design -
very hard to know (see comments in original message)
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. 2006 IS exam -
nothing beyond nested IF's - nothing involving arrays, records, files. One
question with a loop was only concerned with identifying variable types, but
not control or data structures.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. Previous exams -
basic use of 1-dim array, basic looping</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. VITTA practice
exams - suggest you need to have a solid understanding of arrays, records,
file processing and parameter passing. </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4. Text books -
cover algorithms for stacks, queues, linked lists
etc</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">At the end of the
day, past exams to me are the only general indicator of the depth to
cover. Is there a reason why the study design can't spell
this out more clearly?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Frank</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
is-bounces@edulists.com.au [mailto:is-bounces@edulists.com.au] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Frank Van Den
Boom<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, 25
October 2006 12:41 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
is@edulists.com.au<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[Year 12 Its] New IS study design query</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Today I started looking more
closely at the revised study design to plan for next year. One of the things
that struck me is that it is difficult to know what the minimum content
requirements are in a number of areas. For example-data structures. I don't
think it specifically mentions any particular data structure. U4O1 key
knowledge includes "methods of organising files....serial, sequential,
random" which implies the need to cover records. Arrays are not specifically
referred to and while, it would be pretty dumb to omit them, are 1-dim
arrays enough, or might exams expect ability to work with multi-dim arrays?
What about sets, pointers....</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Another KK point --> 'Forms
and uses of data structures to organise and manipulate data'. Which data
structures?? What types of uses?? - all the oldies like sorting, linked
lists, queues, binary searches etc are possible
here.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Now I know we have the
flexibility to cover as much of this as we want to for the kids who are
really into it, particularly for those who already have a reasonable
programming foundation as they enter the course. But what I don't know is
what the minimum requirement is. This becomes more important when most
of your group have little to no programming
experience.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What do you think about
this?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Frank</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________
<BR><A href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au </A>IT
Systems Mailing List kindly supported by <BR><A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au </A>- Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au </A>- VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
_______________________________________________ <BR><A
href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au </A>IT Systems
Mailing List kindly supported by <BR><A
href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au </A>- Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority and <BR><A
href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au </A>- VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association
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