thanks keith, robert,<br>
<br>
the raw xhtml, css, javascript pathway is more difficult than a visual
editor but it does potentially open a real pathway into developing web
apps, eg. AJAX is a big new buzzword<br>
<br>
for me it's important that students grasp the concept of markup -
markup is crucial but not really hard, it's not programming - I see a
danger in using visual editors that the fundamental importance of
markup might be lost or not even noticed <br>
<br>
these sort of decisions are important at the outset IMO - there are
many distractions around, for students and teachers, so I think it's
best to identify fundamentals on day one and pursue them <br>
<br>
one way to teach CSS is by templating - give the students a CSS
template and then ask them to change the property values to alter the
appearance of the web page, something like -<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="EN-US"><span style=""> </span><style><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="EN-US">body {<br>
<span style=""> </span>margin: 10% 5% 10%
5%;<span style=""> </span>/* top, right, bottom, left */<br>
<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>background-color: lemonchiffon; /* ALTER */<br>
<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>color: crimson;<span style=""> </span>/* text colour - ALTER */<span style=""> <br>
</span>}</span></p>
etc.<br>
<br>
there are a lot of permutations possible in this discussion - I'd like
to start a new thread and offer some materials - worksheets, examples<br>
<br>
sorry for distraction from main thrust of keith's original post and tony's follow up<br>
-- <br>
Bill Kerr<br>
<a href="http://billkerr.blogspot.com/">http://billkerr.blogspot.com/</a><br>
<a href="http://intranet.woodvillehs.sa.edu.au/kerrbi/index.htm">http://intranet.woodvillehs.sa.edu.au/kerrbi/index.htm</a><br>
<br>
On 7/3/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Keith Richardson</b> <<a href="mailto:keithcr@fastmail.fm">keithcr@fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks Bill and Robert. You are having an impact on me! I have started
<br>to explore CSS, and was totally blown out of the water when I discovered<br>how easy it was to make something happen exactly the way I wanted after<br>arm-wrestling with Front Page for years trying to get it to do the same.
<br>Wow!<br>One site I found helpful is <a href="http://www.tizag.com/cssT/pclass.php">http://www.tizag.com/cssT/pclass.php</a> etc.<br>When I experienced Front Page 2000 responding obediently to CSS<br>instructions, yet crashing when I wanted to use it to edit the CSS file
<br>( I used Notepad instead) I decided to explore Dreamweaver that I have<br>had for some time, but lacked the time and motivation to get into it. It<br>certainly seems to support CSS more fully, but time is early...<br>
Fundamentally I am not a programmer so am content to use a web editor<br>such as Dreamweaver, but want to exercise maximum control over the<br>finished product, and have it do precisely what I have in my<br>'designer's' mind.
<br>Keith<br><br><br>On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 15:19:17 +1000, "Robert Hind" <<a href="mailto:robert@yinnar.com">robert@yinnar.com</a>><br>said:<br>> Re year 10 plus:<br>><br>> I too am a fan of teaching students to use HTML directly. Mainly because
<br>> I believe that the students should know what is going on "behind the<br>> scenes" before they launch into a wysiwyg program such as Dreamweaver.<br>> Non-standards-compliant programs such as Front Page should be relegated
<br>> to the lowest rank, even if they are easy to use and readily available.<br>><br>> CSS, HTML, JavaScript: all great and I think that our IT students should<br>> be following this path rather than even Dreamweaver because part of their
<br>> IT education is learning how things work rather than just being able to<br>> "do it".<br>><br>> But so many of the students are after the "quick fix". What do they<br>> want?" "Results." "When do they want them?" "Now." - or preferably last
<br>> week. They have chosen to study IT and it should be made clear to them<br>> that we are not simply following the ICT path, but rather showing them<br>> how things work.<br>><br>> Robert Hind<br>> Ashwood College
<br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> From: Bill Kerr<br>> To: Year 12 Information Technology Processing and Management<br>> Teachers'Mailing List<br>> Cc: List Yr7-10it<br>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 1:03 PM
<br>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IPM] New Yr10IT Course - Construct-ion-ivist<br>> Approach<br>><br>><br>> hi keith,<br>><br>> Thanks for sharing your plan.<br>><br>> Task 10 - Website<br>>
<br>> I'm a big fan of *not* using FrontPage because it is not standards<br>> compliant, for example, the pages may not appear correctly in popular<br>> alternative browsers such as Firefox.<br>><br>> That's a pragmatic issue but the whole issue of web standards is an
<br>> important issue in its own right IMHO.<br>><br>> One approach (the FrontPage approach) is to produce a webpage as<br>> quickly and easily as possible.<br>><br>> The other approach is to follow the modern, forward looking path of
<br>> clean separation of structure (HTML), style (CSS) and behaviour<br>> (javascript) which will make webpages look better in a variety of<br>> browsers, last into the future (as browsers improve CSS2, CSS3),
<br>> incorporate features such as disability access which ought to be of<br>> importance to teachers, etc.<br>><br>> I'm also a big fan of teaching raw HTML markup directly but that's a<br>> separate issue. Dreamweaver, for example, is standards compliant and so
<br>> is a perfectly acceptable alternative to Frontpage.<br>><br>> --<br>> Bill Kerr<br>> <a href="http://billkerr.blogspot.com/">http://billkerr.blogspot.com/</a><br>> <a href="http://intranet.woodvillehs.sa.edu.au/kerrbi/index.htm">
http://intranet.woodvillehs.sa.edu.au/kerrbi/index.htm</a><br>><br>><br>> On 6/29/05, Keith Richardson <<a href="mailto:keithcr@fastmail.fm">keithcr@fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:<br>> I have been impressed by the various approaches to ITC discussed
<br>> recently on these lists, and so decided to create an experimental<br>> learning setting for my Year10IT class for Semester 2. I have played<br>> with various forms of scenario-based integrative units before, as I
<br>> guess we all have, but decided to go all out with this one, utilizing<br>> full-immersion lasting a full semester.<br>> My kids seem to work best in situations where they are involved in<br>> the
<br>> content, where there are clearly defined expectations, yet where<br>> there<br>> is also 'room-to-move'. I have built each of these elements into the<br>> course.<br>> I would like to eventually move towards a Moodle style of course
<br>> delivery, but at this point in time the learning curve (for me) is<br>> toweringly steep, so have decided to be more conventional and during<br>> the<br>> semester in my own time try adapting it across to Moodle. We will
<br>> see...<br>> Please feel free to modify and adapt in any which way (all I ask is<br>> that<br>> credit be given for original authorship). It should be easy to change<br>> the cultural setting to suit your kids, and to adjust the various
<br>> software and tasks to suit what you prefer to do.<br>> My whole thesis is that ICT and associated software programs should<br>> be<br>> there to serve other purposes. There will be times when it is
<br>> essential<br>> to pause from the theme and teach just software but just sufficient<br>> to<br>> put them onto the right track with correct procedures and the<br>> discipline<br>> of organized logic particularly in the field of file management.
<br>> As an aside I recommend taking a look at the Florida Gulf Coast<br>> University tutorials for Word, PowerPoint, Excel and Access, as well<br>> as<br>> Wikipaedia for definitions and extended explanations.
<br>> Attached please find a copy of the course.<br>> I would be very interested in and appreciative of critical feedback<br>> please.<br>> Regards, Keith Richardson<br>> Keith Richardson
<br>> Leibler Yavneh College<br>> Elsternwick Ph (03)9528 4911<br>> <a href="mailto:keithcr@fastmail.fm">keithcr@fastmail.fm</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> <a href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>> IPM Mailing List kindly supported by<br>> <a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au
</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment<br>> Authority and<br>> <a href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology<br>> Teachers Association Inc
<br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> <a href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>> IPM Mailing List kindly supported by
<br>> <a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment<br>> Authority and<br>> <a href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
<br>> Teachers Association Inc<br>Keith Richardson<br>IPM List Moderator<br>Head of ICT, Leibler Yavneh College<br>Elsternwick<br>Ph: 03.9528.4911<br><a href="mailto:k.richardson@yavneh.vic.edu.au">k.richardson@yavneh.vic.edu.au
</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br><a href="http://www.edulists.com.au">http://www.edulists.com.au</a> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe<br>IPM Mailing List kindly supported by<br><a href="http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au">
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au</a> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and<br><a href="http://www.vitta.org.au">http://www.vitta.org.au</a> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc<br></blockquote>
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